Probabilities with Chips and Bowls

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating conditional probabilities involving chips of different colors transferred between two bowls. The specific scenario involves determining the probability of transferring a certain combination of chips given that a blue chip is drawn from the second bowl. The conversation explores both the mathematical approach and potential shortcuts in the calculation process.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant outlines a method for calculating the conditional probability P(2r3b | 1b) using Bayes' theorem, expressing concern about the complexity and time required for the calculations.
  • Another participant suggests that the probability of drawing a blue chip from the second bowl can be computed as if it were drawn directly from the first bowl, implying that the transfer process does not affect the overall probability.
  • A subsequent reply questions whether this simplification leads to a probability of 0.4 for drawing a blue chip from bowl 2.
  • Another participant confirms that the probability of drawing a blue chip from bowl 2 is indeed 0.4, while noting that the calculations would be more complex if multiple chips were drawn from bowl 2.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no consensus on the best method for calculating the conditional probability, with some participants supporting the idea of simplification while others focus on the detailed calculations. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the most efficient approach.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights potential limitations in the assumptions made about the independence of the transfer process and the calculations involved. There is also an indication that the complexity of the problem may increase with different parameters, such as drawing multiple chips.

Who May Find This Useful

Participants interested in probability theory, particularly in conditional probabilities and combinatorial problems, may find this discussion relevant.

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A better way to do Probabilities with Chips and Bowls?

Question:
bowl 1 contains 6 red chips and 4 blue chips. 5 chips are selected at random and placed in bowl 2. then 1 chips is drawn from bowl 2. Relative to the hypothesis that this chip is blue, find the conditional probability that 2 red chips and 3 blue chips are transferred from bowl 1 to 2.

Solution:
in lamens terms, the question is asking "what is the probability of 2red and 3 blue chips, given 1 blue" or P(2r3b | 1b)

p(2r3b | 1b) = ( P(2r3b) * P(1b | 2r3b) ) / ( P(2r3b) * P(1b | 2r3b) + P(4r1b) * P(1b | 4r1b) + P(3r2b) * P(1b | 3r2b) + P(1r4b) * P(1b | 1r4b))

Ok great. so i calculate all that, i get 5/14... but these questions take FOREVER! my question: is there a quicker way to do this? I thought about the following:
The denominator in the above equation should all add up to P(of picking any 5 random chips with at least 1 blue), let's say P(A). So does it not make sense to say P(A) = 1 - P(no blue chips) = 1 - P(5red).

P(5red) = 1/42
so P(A) = 41/42 which is not equal to the denominator from above (which btw is 6/15).

Any insight?
 
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To compute the probability that the chip drawn from the second bowl is blue, compute it as if you drew it from the first bowl. The intermediate step of transferring chips to a second bowl shouldn't affect the bottom line probability of getting a blue chip on one draw.
 
so you are implying that the probability is .4?
 
The probability that the chip drawn from the bowl 2 is blue = 0.4.

The calculation wouldn't be so simple if you had to draw more than 1 chip from bowl 2.
 

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