Problem with Bernoulli calculation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of Bernoulli's equation in a fluid dynamics problem involving airflow through a pipe with varying cross-sectional areas. Participants explore the implications of increasing airflow speed and the resulting pressure calculations, particularly addressing the physical limitations of negative absolute pressure.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant calculates the pressure P2 using Bernoulli's equation but arrives at a negative value, questioning the validity of the calculation and the conditions under which the equation holds.
  • Another participant points out that the velocity V2 cannot exceed ten times V1 in the smallest diameter section of the Venturi, as this would lead to supersonic flow, where Bernoulli's theorem is not applicable.
  • A later reply reinforces the previous point about supersonic flow and reiterates that Bernoulli's theorem cannot be applied under those conditions.
  • One participant suggests using isentropic nozzle flow equations to account for compressibility effects in the calculations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that Bernoulli's equation may not be applicable in scenarios involving supersonic flow, but there is no consensus on the correct method to calculate pressure P2 under the given conditions.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations related to the assumptions of Bernoulli's equation, particularly in relation to compressibility and flow speeds approaching or exceeding the speed of sound. The mathematical steps leading to the negative pressure result remain unresolved.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for individuals interested in fluid dynamics, particularly those exploring the limitations of Bernoulli's equation and the implications of compressible flow in engineering applications.

gen x
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When I increase airlfow speed v1, pressure in contraction drop more and more, so at some point fall even below 0 Pa absolute, but this is physically impossible.
I use this numbers just as example, this is not homework question..

Data for pipe:
P1=150 000Pa, absolute pressure
section ratio A1/A2=10
v1=80m/s
ρ=1.2kg/m3
...............................................................
Find pressure P2 in pipe section A2.

P1+1/2 ρ V1^2 = P2 + 1/2 ρ V2^2
A1 V1= A2 V2.........V2=A1/A2 x V1

delta P = P1-P2 = 1/2 ρV1^2 ((A1/A2)^2 -1)
-P2 = 1/2 ρV1^2 ((A1/A2)^2 -1) - P1 /x (-1)

P2= -1/2 ρV1^2 ((A1/A2)^2 -1) + P1

I calculate P2= -230 160Pa, this is imossible because negative absolute pressure dont exist.

How can I caluculate this correctly and up to which speed v1 equation is correct?
 
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V2 can't reach ten times the value of V1 in the smallest diameter section of the Venturi because it would be way over the speed of sound.
You are stepping into the field of supersonic flow, in which the theorem of Bernoulli can't be applied.
 
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Lnewqban said:
V2 can't reach ten times the value of V1 in the smallest diameter section of the Venturi because it would be way over the speed of sound.
You are stepping into the field of supersonic flow, in which the theorem of Bernoulli can't be applied.
Good catch.
 
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Lnewqban said:
V2 can't reach ten times the value of V1 in the smallest diameter section of the Venturi because it would be way over the speed of sound.
You are stepping into the field of supersonic flow, in which the theorem of Bernoulli can't be applied.
What is solution to find pressure P2?
 

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