Propeller thrust in restricted air flow environment

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding how the thrust and lift generated by a propeller change in response to variations in surrounding air pressure, particularly in a restricted airflow environment. Participants explore the relationship between air density and propeller performance without delving into specific calculations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that as air pressure decreases, lift will approach zero, prompting questions about the effects of increased pressure in a sealed chamber on lift.
  • Another participant emphasizes that changes in thrust and torque are related to changes in air density rather than pressure alone, as air is a compressible fluid.
  • A request for relevant mathematical resources is made, indicating interest in further understanding the relationship between pressure, density, and propeller performance.
  • A participant provides equations for propeller thrust and torque, highlighting the role of experimental coefficients and fluid density, and suggests looking into "Blade Element Momentum Theory" for foundational concepts.
  • One participant mentions a personal project involving a racing drone, indicating plans to measure performance metrics using flight control software and load cells.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the importance of air density in relation to thrust and torque, but there is no consensus on a perfect mathematical model for propeller performance. The discussion remains exploratory with multiple viewpoints presented.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the lack of a definitive mathematical model for propeller performance and the dependence on assumptions regarding air density and pressure relationships.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for individuals interested in aerodynamics, propeller design, and experimental physics, particularly those working on projects involving drones or similar applications.

houlahound
Messages
907
Reaction score
223
looking at where to start understanding how the thrust/lift generated by a specific propeller (hypothetical one) changes as a function of surrounding air pressure.

obviously the lift will go to zero as air pressure decreases.

as pressure increases, modeled by say mounting the propeller inside a sealed air chamber not much bigger in diameter than the propeller diameter and say 10 times the volume, how is lift effected and why?

no specific calculation required, just trying to get my head around the physics.

thanks any replies.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Hi Holulahound:
That's not a question of presure, but of density. Air is a compressible fluid, hence, density is not constant with pressure. Thrust and Torque of a propeller are directly related to density. Hence, when pressure changes, density changes as well and then, Thrust and Torque do the same.

Regards
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: houlahound
That Ion, I expected a change, can you link me to any relevant math?
 
Hi Houlahound
We have no perfect propeller mathematical model by now. Anyway ...some notes ...

Propeller thrust at working RPM:
T= Kt dens N^2 D^4

Required torque at working RPM
Q= Kq dens N^2 D^5

Kt and Kq are experimental coefficients
dens --> fluid density
N ------> Propeller rotation rate given in Herz N= RPM/60
D -----> Propeller diameter

Efficiency is given by the relation between input and output power (Power consumed by the propeller and power delivered)

eff= T V/(2 PI N Q)

Although there is no perfect model,my advice is that having a look to the "Blade Element Momentum Theory" could be a good starting point for "grabbing" the key concepts about how a propeller works.

For an approach to air density at given conditions, the Ideal gas equation can be used: dens= (P M)/(R T)
Where:
P --->> Pressure
M --->> Molar mass (Air is a mixture not a single element --- Use any standard)
T -->> Absolute Temperature
R -->> Ideal gas constant (Value will depend on units)Dont hersitate asking again if needed.

Regards
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: houlahound
Thanks great starting point, I will look into it.

I am building a racing drone at this very moment, going to use the free download flight control software and some load cells to measure the bejesus out of it.

Spare time project, expect to get results possibly this year.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
4K
  • · Replies 30 ·
2
Replies
30
Views
5K
  • · Replies 26 ·
Replies
26
Views
3K
  • · Replies 69 ·
3
Replies
69
Views
17K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
5K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
4K
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
6K