Prove mass, velocity and KE are their respected quantities

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of mass, velocity, and kinetic energy (KE) in terms of their classifications as scalar or vector quantities. Participants explore definitions, mathematical relationships, and seek proofs or clarifications regarding these concepts, touching on related topics such as work done and vector operations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states that mass and KE are scalars while velocity is a vector, seeking proofs beyond definitions.
  • Another participant defines KE as ##KE=1/2 m v^2##, explaining that while ##v## is a vector, ##v^2## is a scalar due to the dot product, thus concluding KE is a scalar.
  • A participant reiterates the definition of work done as force times displacement, noting that displacement is a vector and the product results in a scalar through the dot product.
  • Some participants clarify that there are two types of vector products: the dot product, which yields a scalar, and the cross product, which yields another vector.
  • There is a discussion about the properties of even and odd powers in relation to scalars and vectors, emphasizing that scalars do not change sign while vectors do.
  • Several participants agree on the definitions provided, particularly regarding mass being defined as a scalar.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that mass is a scalar and that kinetic energy is also a scalar quantity. However, there is some contention regarding the nature of vector products and the implications of these definitions in various contexts, indicating that multiple views remain on certain aspects of the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express a desire for proofs or deeper explanations regarding the classification of mass as a scalar, indicating that the discussion may not fully resolve these inquiries. Additionally, the discussion touches on the mathematical operations involving vectors and scalars without reaching a consensus on all points raised.

YES q THE zU19
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I have done the example for momentum.

And I gather that scalar*vector=vector.

I know that mass and KE is scalar, velocity is vector.

Can someone show me proofs like for what I have said above.

Not just mass is scalar because it does not have direction etc.

Thank you.
 
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KE is defined as ##KE=1/2 m v^2##, where ##m## is a scalar and ##v## is a vector. ##v^2## is short for ## v \cdot v## which is the dot product, an operation which takes two vectors and returns a scalar. So although ##v## is a vector ##v^2## is a scalar, and thus KE is a scalar.
 
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Dale said:
KE is defined as ##KE=1/2 m v^2##, where ##m## is a scalar and ##v## is a vector. ##v^2## is short for ## v \cdot v## which is the dot product, an operation which takes two vectors and returns a scalar. So although ##v## is a vector ##v^2## is a scalar, and thus KE is a scalar.

Thank you, this was what I was looking for.

So in general we have;

scalar*scalar= scalar?

scalar*vector = vector

vector*vector = scalar.

What about work done though?

Work done = energy

So force * distance = vector * scalar? = vector

Could you also kindly tell me about how to prove mass is scalar please.
 
YES q THE zU19 said:
Work done = energy
So force * distance = vector * scalar? = vector
Work is force times displacement. Displacement is a vector, not a scalar. The product is a dot product and produces a scalar.

Could you also kindly tell me about how to prove mass is scalar please.
Mass is defined as a scalar. It is a scalar by definition.
 
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YES q THE zU19 said:
vector*vector = scalar.
Not always. There are two vector products. The dot product takes two vectors and gives a scalar, but the cross product takes two vectors and gives another vector. These are usually written as ##a \cdot b## and ##a \times b## respectively.

For the rest of your questions I agree with jbriggs444's answers above, particularly for Newtonian mechanics.
 
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Dale said:
The dot product takes two vectors and gives a scalar, but the cross product takes two vectors and gives another vector.

And the tensor product results in a matrix.
 
Don't forget a useful property of basic arithmetic. For real numbers, even powers are always positive, odd powers can be plus or minus. Vectors, like velocity, need to have direction and thus change sign. Scalars, like temperature or speed, have no sign.

That is not physics, but it can be useful in physics. For example, ##mv^2## is always positive. It takes the same energy to accelerate a body to an eastward velocity as to a westward velocity. You can spot that instantly because the power 2 is even.
 
jbriggs444 said:
Work is force times displacement. Displacement is a vector, not a scalar. The product is a dot product and produces a scalar.Mass is defined as a scalar. It is a scalar by definition.

Thank you.
 
Dale said:
Not always. There are two vector products. The dot product takes two vectors and gives a scalar, but the cross product takes two vectors and gives another vector. These are usually written as ##a \cdot b## and ##a \times b## respectively.

For the rest of your questions I agree with jbriggs444's answers above, particularly for Newtonian mechanics.

Thanks dale.
 
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anorlunda said:
Don't forget a useful property of basic arithmetic. For real numbers, even powers are always positive, odd powers can be plus or minus. Vectors, like velocity, need to have direction and thus change sign. Scalars, like temperature or speed, have no sign.

That is not physics, but it can be useful in physics. For example, ##mv^2## is always positive. It takes the same energy to accelerate a body to an eastward velocity as to a westward velocity. You can spot that instantly because the power 2 is even.

Thank you for this.
 

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