Proving f(0)=f(1) in the Sierpinski Topology with a Continuous Function

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ted123
  • Start date Start date
Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The problem involves the Sierpinski topology on the set X = {0, 1} and a continuous function f: X → ℝ. The goal is to show that f(0) = f(1).

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the implications of continuity for the function f and consider the consequences of assuming f(0) ≠ f(1). There are discussions about the preimages of sets under f and their properties in relation to the topology.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants examining the validity of their assumptions and reasoning. Some have suggested that assuming f(0) ≠ f(1) leads to contradictions regarding the continuity of f, while others question the correctness of these conclusions and the definitions involved.

Contextual Notes

There is an emphasis on the definitions of closed and open sets within the Sierpinski topology, as well as the continuity of functions in this context. Participants are also addressing the potential for misunderstanding regarding the properties of the function f.

Ted123
Messages
428
Reaction score
0

Homework Statement



Let [itex]X=\{0,1\}[/itex] with the Sierpinski topology [itex]\tau = \{ \emptyset , \{0\} ,\{0,1\} \}[/itex].

Suppose [itex]f:X\to \mathbb{R}[/itex] is continuous.

Show [itex]f(0)=f(1)[/itex].

[Potentially useful observation: [itex]\{f(0)\}[/itex] is closed in [itex]\mathbb{R}[/itex].]

The Attempt at a Solution



[itex]f:X\to\mathbb{R}[/itex] is continuous [itex]\iff[/itex] for every open (closed) set [itex]A\subseteq \mathbb{R},\;f^*(A)[/itex] is open (closed) in [itex]X[/itex].

How to show f(0)=f(1)?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Suppose the contrary, and find an open set whose preimage is {1}.
 
Citan Uzuki said:
Suppose the contrary, and find an open set whose preimage is {1}.

Does [itex]f^*(\{0\}) = \{1\}[/itex]?
 
Ted123 said:
Does [itex]f^*(\{0\}) = \{1\}[/itex]?

Who could say until you define what f is?? Follow Citan Uzuki's advice and define f(0)=a and f(1)=b where a and b are unequal real numbers. Is f continuous?
 
Dick said:
Who could say until you define what f is?? Follow Citan Uzuki's advice and define f(0)=a and f(1)=b where a and b are unequal real numbers. Is f continuous?

So [itex]\{a\} \subseteq \mathbb{R}[/itex] and [itex]\{b\} \subseteq \mathbb{R}[/itex] are closed, and [itex]f^*(\{a\})=\{0\} \subseteq X[/itex] is closed in [itex]X[/itex] but [itex]f^*(\{a\})=\{1\}[/itex] is not closed in [itex]X[/itex] so [itex]f[/itex] is not continuous - contradiction; therefore [itex]f(0)=f(1)[/itex]?
 
Ted123 said:
So [itex]\{a\} \subseteq \mathbb{R}[/itex] and [itex]\{b\} \subseteq \mathbb{R}[/itex] are closed, and [itex]f^*(\{a\})=\{0\} \subseteq X[/itex] is closed in [itex]X[/itex] but [itex]f^*(\{a\})=\{1\}[/itex] is not closed in [itex]X[/itex] so [itex]f[/itex] is not continuous - contradiction; therefore [itex]f(0)=f(1)[/itex]?

^ That should say [itex]f^*(\{b\})=\{1\}[/itex] but I can't find an edit button!
 
Ted123 said:
So [itex]\{a\} \subseteq \mathbb{R}[/itex] and [itex]\{b\} \subseteq \mathbb{R}[/itex] are closed, and [itex]f^*(\{a\})=\{0\} \subseteq X[/itex] is closed in [itex]X[/itex] but [itex]f^*(\{a\})=\{1\}[/itex] is not closed in [itex]X[/itex] so [itex]f[/itex] is not continuous - contradiction; therefore [itex]f(0)=f(1)[/itex]?

Right. Now to finish up show that if a=b then f IS continuous.
 
That approach will work, but you're doing it backwards. {0} is not closed in X, because its complement is {1}, which is not in the topology on X. So the conclusion that f is not continuous comes from the fact that f*({a}) = 0, not the fact that f*({b}) = 1.
 
Ted123 said:
^ That should say [itex]f^*(\{b\})=\{1\}[/itex] but I can't find an edit button!

Yeah, actually I didn't notice, but you right. My 'Edit' button disappeared for a while yesterday. Seems to be back now. At least for me. Citan Uzuki is also right. I didn't notice you'd swapped the open and closed either. Guess I should read more carefully.
 
  • #10
Dick said:
Yeah, actually I didn't notice, but you right. My 'Edit' button disappeared for a while yesterday. Seems to be back now. At least for me. Citan Uzuki is also right. I didn't notice you'd swapped the open and closed either. Guess I should read more carefully.

If we have a contradiction after supposing [itex]a\neq b[/itex] doesn't that mean we must have [itex]a=b[/itex]?
 
  • #11
Ted123 said:
If we have a contradiction after supposing [itex]a\neq b[/itex] doesn't that mean we must have [itex]a=b[/itex]?

No! All you've shown is that if a not equal b is then f is not continuous. How can that be a proof that if a=b then f is continuous? There might not be ANY continuous functions.
 
  • #12
Dick said:
No! All you've shown is that if a not equal b is then f is not continuous. How can that be a proof that if a=b then f is continuous? There might not be ANY continuous functions.

But we're assuming all along that [itex]f:X\to \mathbb{R}[/itex] is continuous (as the question tells us this!)
 
  • #13
Ted123 said:
But we're assuming all along that [itex]f:X\to \mathbb{R}[/itex] is continuous (as the question tells us this!)

Ok, this is really not my day. You are right. I thought you had to prove f continuous iff a=b. I saw the double arrow in your original post and fixated on it.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
23
Views
4K
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
2K
  • · Replies 58 ·
2
Replies
58
Views
5K
Replies
26
Views
3K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
2K