Proving F is an Isometry for C^1 Functions in Elementary Geometry

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the assertion that a C^1 function F from R^n to R^n is an isometry if it is injective and preserves the length of curves. Participants explore the implications of this assertion, considering various metrics and approaches to proving the claim.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests using a straight line as a curve to demonstrate that if the metric is conserved under F, then F is an isometry, but expresses uncertainty about the necessity of a specific metric.
  • Another participant defines the length of a curve and questions whether "isometry" refers specifically to the Euclidean metric or could have other interpretations.
  • A participant proposes differentiating the integral of the length of the image curve parameterized by arc length, leading to a condition on the derivative of F.
  • There is a suggestion that any metric can be used on the domain and range, with a focus on parametrizing curves by arc length to explore the implications of F being injective.
  • One participant mentions potential technicalities that could invalidate certain arguments, such as the existence of a non-trivial kernel for the derivative of F.
  • A later reply indicates a resolution with assistance from a teaching assistant, proposing a method involving straight lines and inequalities related to distances and lengths.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express uncertainty about the necessity of a specific metric and whether the definitions of length and isometry are universally applicable. Multiple competing views on the approach to proving the assertion remain, and the discussion does not reach a consensus.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations regarding the assumptions about metrics and the implications of F being C^1, including concerns about the derivative and potential non-trivial kernels.

MathematicalPhysicist
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I might have forgotten about it cause I took a similar course two years ago.

So I have this assertion:
Let F be a [tex]C^1[/tex] function from R^n to R^n, show that if F is injective, and for each curve [tex]\gamma : I\rightarrow R^n[/tex] [tex]Length(\gamma)=Length(F o \gamma)[/tex] then F is an isometry.

So I thought basically if I pick [tex]\gamma[/tex] to be a straight line, and if the metric is the euclidean metric then basically I have [tex]Length(\gamma)=d(\gamma(a),\gamma(b))[/tex]
and from what is given I get that the metric is conserved as well under F, so it's an isometry.
But I am not sure I should use here a specific metric.

Any other thought of this question?
Thanks.
 
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Well, give your definitions! I assume that the length [itex]\ell(\gamma)[/itex] is defined by

[tex]\ell(\gamma):=\int_I |\gamma'(t)|dt[/tex]?

Then

[tex]\ell(F\circ\gamma):=\int_I |F'(\gamma(t))||\gamma'(t)|dt[/tex]

by the chain rule.

Also, "isometry" could mean precisely

[tex]d(F(a),F(b))=d(a,b)[/tex]

for all a,b in R^n, with d some fixed metric, probably the Euclidean metric. But it might mean something else?
 
Take [tex]\gamma[/tex] to be parameterized by arc length. Then

[tex]0 = \int^{t}_{0}(|F'(\gamma(s))|- 1)ds[/tex]

Differentiating with respect to t gives

[tex]0 = (|F'(\gamma(t))|- 1) d/dt|F'(\gamma(t))|[/tex]

I think by the Chain Rule. Is this right?

If [tex]|F'(\gamma(t))|[/tex] does not equal one in some interval then

[tex]d/dt|F'(\gamma(t))| = 0[/tex] in the interval and so [tex]|F'(\gamma(t))|[/tex] must be constant. But the only possible constant is 1.

Something like this must work. Thie idea of this is to write the length of the image curve in a Taylor approximation with respect to the length of the original curve
 
Last edited:
Landau said:
Well, give your definitions! I assume that the length [itex]\ell(\gamma)[/itex] is defined by

[tex]\ell(\gamma):=\int_I |\gamma'(t)|dt[/tex]?

Then

[tex]\ell(F\circ\gamma):=\int_I |F'(\gamma(t))||\gamma'(t)|dt[/tex]

by the chain rule.

Also, "isometry" could mean precisely

[tex]d(F(a),F(b))=d(a,b)[/tex]

for all a,b in R^n, with d some fixed metric, probably the Euclidean metric. But it might mean something else?

Yes these are the definitions I am using (F should also be injective in order to be an isometry), but I am not sure I can use here the Euclidean metric.

Is there a general way to show this without assuming what type of a metric I have here?
 
MathematicalPhysicist said:
But I am not sure I should use here a specific metric.

You can use any metric on the domain and any other metric on the range.

Parametrize the curve by arc length in the first metric.

(<dF([tex]\gamma[/tex]'(s),dF([tex]\gamma[/tex]'(s)>[tex]^{1/2}[/tex] - 1) integrates to zero over any interval.

The derivative of the integral also equals zero.

So 0 ={ (<dF([tex]\gamma[/tex]'(s),dF([tex]\gamma[/tex]'(s)>[tex]^{1/2}[/tex] - 1)/<dF([tex]\gamma[/tex]'(s),dF([tex]\gamma[/tex]'(s)>[tex]^{1/2}[/tex] }d/dt<dF([tex]\gamma[/tex]'(s),dF([tex]\gamma[/tex]'(s)>

This means that <dF([tex]\gamma[/tex]'(s),dF([tex]\gamma[/tex]'(s)> is constant and so must equal 1.

dF carries vectors of length 1 in the first metric into vectors of length 1 in the second.

There are technicalities that make this argument wrong for all cases in that even though F is injective dF might have a non-trivial kernel at some points and also since F is only C[tex]^{1}[/tex] the last derivative may not exist.
 
Last edited:
Well obviously we know that F is onto its image (so I guess that we assume its surjective by default).

Anyway, I think I solved with some help from my TA.

If we take [tex]\gamma[/tex] to be a striaght line then from the fact that
[tex]d(\gamma(a),\gamma(b)) \le Length(\gamma)[/tex] (in general, for a straight line they are equal)
and from the equality that d(x,y) > = d(F(x) , F(y))

Now if I pick gamma to be a curve such that the composition of F with gamma equals a straight line then I get with the same reasoning that
d(F(x),F(y)) >= d(x,y).
 

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