Proving Surjective Functions with Finite Y: No Axiom of Choice Required

Click For Summary
SUMMARY

The discussion centers on proving that if a function f: X->Y is surjective and Y is finite, then a section function s:Y->X exists such that f(s(y))=y for all y in Y, without invoking the Axiom of Choice. Participants clarify that the proof can be approached using mathematical induction on the cardinality of Y. The base case for n=1 is established, and the inductive step involves demonstrating the case for n+1 by removing an element from Y.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of surjective functions and their properties
  • Familiarity with mathematical induction techniques
  • Knowledge of the Axiom of Choice and its implications in set theory
  • Basic concepts of function mappings in mathematics
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the principles of mathematical induction in depth
  • Explore the implications of the Axiom of Choice in set theory
  • Review examples of surjective functions and their characteristics
  • Investigate the construction of section functions in various mathematical contexts
USEFUL FOR

Mathematicians, students studying abstract algebra or set theory, and anyone interested in the foundations of mathematical proofs without reliance on the Axiom of Choice.

jacobrhcp
Messages
164
Reaction score
0

Homework Statement



Prove, without using the Axiom of Choice:

if f: X->Y is surjective and Y is finite, there exists a 'section', a function s:Y->X such that f(s(y))=y for all y in Y

Hint: perform induction over the cardinality of Y

The Attempt at a Solution



Induction over the cardinality of Y? I don't even know what they mean. I'd say this would require the AC because we need to pick one of the elements of f^-1 (y) for all y in Y. since X is infinite, one of these f^-1 (y) has to be infinite as well, and I don't know how to pick a specific element of this if I can't just say 'I pick some'.

And I also don't understand the hint. Some help would be appreciated.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
You don't know "proof by induction"? Surely you are just misunderstanding. Since Y is finite, its cardinality is some positive integer, say n. Prove this statement by induction on n.

If n= 1, that means that Y contains exactly one member, call it "y". There exist some function from X such that f(x)= y for all x in X. Can you find a function from Y to X, s(y) such that f(s(y))= y? That should be pretty easy.

Now, suppose that statement is true when y contains n members and prove that it is true and prove it is true when Y contains n+1 members. (Hint: remove a specific one of the members of Y.)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Ah, thank you, yes I was misunderstanding. I do know proof by induction yes, but 'over the cardinality of Y' was a weird statement to me. This clears things up, I should be fine now.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
8
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
20
Views
5K
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
6K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
3K