Proving that A=0 When tr(A^2)=0

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around proving that if the trace of the square of a symmetric matrix \( A \) is zero, then \( A \) must also be the zero matrix. Participants explore the implications of the trace and the properties of symmetric matrices in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the definition and calculation of the trace of a matrix, particularly focusing on the expression for \( tr(A^2) \) and its implications. There are questions about the validity of the original claim and the conditions under which it holds, especially regarding the symmetry of the matrix.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with some participants questioning the original assertion and providing counterexamples. Others are attempting to clarify the properties of symmetric matrices and how they relate to the trace being zero. There is a mix of interpretations being explored, particularly regarding the implications of the trace being zero for symmetric matrices.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note that the matrix in question must be symmetric for the original claim to hold, which raises additional considerations about the nature of the elements in the matrix and their contributions to the trace.

nhrock3
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i need to prove that if tr(A^2)=0

then A=0



we have a multiplication of 2 the same simmetrical matrices

why there multiplication is this sum formula

<br /> <br /> A*A=\sum_{k=1}^{n}a_{ik}a_{kj}<br /> <br />



i know that wjen we multiply two matrices then in our result matrix

each aij member is dot product of i row and j column.

dont understand the above formula.





and i don't understand how they got the following formula:

then when we calculate the trace (the sum of the diagonal members)

we get

<br /> <br /> tr(A^{2})=\sum_{i=1}^{n}A_{ii}^{2}=\sum_{i=1}^{n}(\sum_{i=1}^{n}a_{ik}a_{ki})<br /> <br />

and because the matrix is simmetric then the trace is zero

why?


i need to prove that if tr(A^2)=0



then A=0



can you explain the sigma work in order to prove it?
 
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Hi nhrock3! :smile:

nhrock3 said:
i need to prove that if tr(A^2)=0

then A=0

This is false. Consider

A=\left(\begin{array}{cc} 0 &amp; 1\\ 0 &amp; 0\\ \end{array}\right)

then tr(A2)=0, but A is not zero.

What does the exercise say precisely?
 
if A is a simetric matrix and if tr(A^2)=0 then A=0
 
Ah, you should have said they were symmetric! :smile:

If

A=\left(\begin{array}{ccccc}<br /> a_{11} &amp; a_{12} &amp; a_{13} &amp; ... &amp; a_{1n}\\<br /> a_{12} &amp; a {22} &amp; a_{23} &amp; ... &amp; a_{2n}\\<br /> a_{13} &amp; a_{23} &amp; a_{33} &amp; ... &amp; a_{3n}\\<br /> \vdots &amp; \vdots &amp; \vdots &amp; \ddots &amp; \vdots\\<br /> a_{1n} &amp; a_{2n} &amp; a_{3n} &amp; ... &amp; a_{nn}\\<br /> \end{array}\right)

then what will be the diagonal of A2?? In particular, can you show that the diagonal contains only positive values?
 
micromass said:
Ah, you should have said they were symmetric! :smile:

If

A=\left(\begin{array}{ccccc}<br /> a_{11} &amp; a_{12} &amp; a_{13} &amp; ... &amp; a_{1n}\\<br /> a_{12} &amp; a {22} &amp; a_{23} &amp; ... &amp; a_{2n}\\<br /> a_{13} &amp; a_{23} &amp; a_{33} &amp; ... &amp; a_{3n}\\<br /> \vdots &amp; \vdots &amp; \vdots &amp; \ddots &amp; \vdots\\<br /> a_{1n} &amp; a_{2n} &amp; a_{3n} &amp; ... &amp; a_{nn}\\<br /> \end{array}\right)

then what will be the diagonal of A2?? In particular, can you show that the diagonal contains only positive values?

each member of the diagonal on the A^2 matrix its number of row equals the column number

so the second member in the diagonal is the dot product of the second row with the second column
etc..
so i get this expression
tr(A^{2})=\sum_{k=1}^{n}\sum_{i=1}^{n}a_{ki}a_{ik}
so because its simetric and equlas zero
tr(A^{2})=\sum_{k=1}^{n}\sum_{i=1}^{n}(a_{ki})^2=0
so we get a sum of squeres and in order for them to be zero
then each one of them has to be zero
thannkkks :)
 
Last edited:
nhrock3 said:
each member of the diagonal on the A^2 matrix its number of row equals the column number

so the second member in the diagonal is the dot product of the second row with the second column

Indeed, so the k'th member in the diagonal is

\|(a_{1k},...,a_{nk})\|^2

Do you see that?
 

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