Proving the Linear Independence of Coordinate Curves on a Smooth Surface

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Ceres629
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Coordinate Curves
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving the linear independence of coordinate curves on a smooth surface, specifically focusing on the tangent vectors derived from the parameterization of the surface. Participants explore the implications of smoothness and differentiability in the context of vector calculus.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that the smoothness of the surface implies that the tangent vector \( \frac{d\mathbf{r}}{d\lambda} \) must be non-zero, leading to the conclusion that the vectors \( \frac{\partial \mathbf{r}}{\partial u} \) and \( \frac{\partial \mathbf{r}}{\partial v} \) are linearly independent.
  • Another participant agrees with the proof but finds the phrasing awkward.
  • A different viewpoint is presented, proposing that since \( \frac{du}{d\lambda} \) and \( \frac{dv}{d\lambda} \) can take any values on a smooth surface, it can be shown that the tangent vectors can be made parallel, which would contradict linear independence if not handled correctly.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing opinions on the clarity and robustness of the proof regarding linear independence. While some find the reasoning acceptable, others raise questions about the implications of the smoothness condition and the choice of parameters.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved aspects regarding the assumptions made about the smoothness of the surface and the implications for the tangent vectors. The discussion does not reach a consensus on the proof's validity or the conditions under which the vectors are considered independent.

Ceres629
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
I'm stuck on a problem on vector calculus.

Given a surface S defined as the end point of the vector:

[tex] \mathbf{r}(u,v) = u\mathbf{i} + v\mathbf{j} + f(u,v)\mathbf{k}[/tex]

and any curve on the surface represented by

[tex] \mathbf{r}(\lambda) = \mathbf{r}(u(\lambda),v(\lambda))[/tex]

and it mentions the tangent to the curve [tex]\mathbf{r}(\lambda)[/tex] is given by

[tex] \frac{d\mathbf{r}}{d\lambda} = \frac{\partial \mathbf{r}}{\partial u} \frac{du}{d\lambda} + \frac{\partial \mathbf{r}}{\partial v} \frac{dv}{d\lambda}[/tex]

It then goes on to focus on a specific case dealing with the curves u = constant and v = constant. It says:

The curves u = constant and v = constant passing through any point P on the surface S are said to be called coordinate curves.

I follow the above however it then states...(for u and v being coordinate curves)

If the surface is smooth, then the vectors [tex]\partial \mathbf{r} / \partial u[/tex] and [tex]\partial \mathbf{r} / \partial v[/tex] are linearly independent.

It gives no explanation as to why the two vectors are linearly independent... any ideas as to how to prove this?

The only thing i could come up with was that since the surface is smooth then any curves on it must be also be smooth and thus differentiable at all points and therefore [tex]d\mathbf{r}/ d\lambda[/tex] must be a non zero vector since the curve [tex]\mathbf{r}(\lambda)[/tex] must have a defined tangent.

The equation:

[tex] \frac{\partial \mathbf{r}}{\partial u} \frac{du}{d\lambda} + \frac{\partial \mathbf{r}}{\partial v} \frac{dv}{d\lambda}= \mathbf{0}[/tex]

cannot be true for any non trivial combination of the vectors [tex]\partial \mathbf{r} / \partial u[/tex] and [tex]\partial \mathbf{r} / \partial v[/tex] therefore they are linearly independent.

Seems a bit of a fuzzy proof though...
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Proof seems legit, if awkwardly phrased.
 
Hi Ceres629! :smile:

Since you're given:
Ceres629 said:
and it mentions the tangent to the curve [tex]\mathbf{r}(\lambda)[/tex] is given by

[tex]\frac{d\mathbf{r}}{d\lambda} = \frac{\partial \mathbf{r}}{\partial u} \frac{du}{d\lambda} + \frac{\partial \mathbf{r}}{\partial v} \frac{dv}{d\lambda}[/tex]

I'd be more inclined to say that if the surface is smooth, then du/dλ and dv/dλ can take any values, and in partiuclar can therefore always be chosen to have (du/dλ)/(dv/dλ) = -|∂r/∂v|/|∂r/∂u|, so satisfying [tex]\frac{d\mathbf{r}}{d\lambda} = \frac{\partial \mathbf{r}}{\partial u} \frac{du}{d\lambda} + \frac{\partial \mathbf{r}}{\partial v} \frac{dv}{d\lambda}\,=\,0[/tex] if ∂r/∂u and ∂r/∂v are parallel;
and λ can be chosen to be arc-length, so that dr/dλ ≠ 0. :smile:
 
thanks tiny tim, your answer also makes sense.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
982
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
1K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
1K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K