Quantifying the magnetic force on a magnet moving through a coil?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on quantifying the magnetic force acting on a magnet as it moves through a conducting coil. Participants explore theoretical and mathematical approaches to model this phenomenon, including the effects of induced magnetic fields and eddy currents. The scope includes both conceptual understanding and mathematical reasoning.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Raymond Bryant references the classic demonstration of a magnet falling through a copper tube and seeks to calculate the force on a magnet moving through a coil as a function of velocity.
  • One participant shares a link to a relevant paper, suggesting it may contain useful information.
  • Another participant describes their approach of treating each wrap of the coil as an individual segment and integrating to find its contribution, expressing uncertainty about the reasonableness of their results, which yield a very small terminal velocity.
  • A different paper is mentioned that formulates a model of eddy current forces, which the participant considers implementing.
  • One participant argues that analyzing one coil turn at a time is impractical and suggests that a long solenoid could provide a more straightforward equivalent analysis, noting the importance of knowing the magnetic moment of the magnet.
  • A suggestion is made to contact another participant, @kuruman, who has written extensively on the topic, although the commenter expresses uncertainty about sharing that work.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the feasibility of calculating the magnetic force using various methods. There is no consensus on the best approach, and uncertainty remains regarding the effectiveness of the proposed models and calculations.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight challenges in calculating magnetic flux and forces, indicating that assumptions about the system and the complexity of the models may limit the accuracy of results. The discussion reflects a range of approaches and levels of understanding regarding the underlying physics.

rayjbryant
Messages
23
Reaction score
6
So I'm familiar with the magnet falling through a copper tube demonstration that shows the induced magnetic fields slowing the magnet down.

I know that this experiment is also possible with a conducting coil as long as the coil forms a closed circuit. I'm trying to find a way to calculate the force acting on the magnet as a function of velocity. Does anyone have a paper they can point me toward?

Thank you,
Raymond Bryant
 
Physics news on Phys.org
vanhees71 said:
Hello vanhees, I've looked at this paper before.

Something I tried to do was treat each wrap of the coil as an individual segment and integrate to get its contribution. I wasn't sure if my results were reasonable. I get a very small terminal velocity.

[CODE lang="matlab" title="coil approximation"]clc
clear all
close all

% magnet dimensions [m]

d = .0127; %magnet height
r = .00238; %magnet radius

%mass of magnet [kg]

m_w = .0017;

% other constants

u_0 = 1.26E-6; % permeability of free space constant T m/A
g = 9.81; % gravitational constant m/s^2

%coil properties [m]

a = .00635; %radius
w = .000635; %width of wire
N = 100; % number of turns
c = pi*a*2; %circumference
wl = c*N; %wire length
cs = pi*(w/2)^2; %cross sectional area
rho = 1.7e-8; % resistivity of copper [ohm/m]
wr = (rho*wl)/cs; % resistance in wire [ohm]
lt = 0.3048; % length of tube

%magnetic properties

sm = 72730000; % magnetic surface charge density [Mx/m^2]

qm = pi*sm*r^2; % total charge Mx

eff_dist = .003175; %effective distance of magnet [m]

%terminal velocity calculation

p = qm*d;
x = d/a;
val = scalingfunction(x);

v = (8*pi*m_w*g*rho*a^2)/(u_0^2*qm^2*w*val); %terminal velocity calculation

%for one ring

flux = [];
z = 0:.00001:eff_dist;

for i = 1:1:length(z) %z varies from zero to effective distance of magnet

flux(end+1) = (u_0*qm*.5)*(((z(i)+d)/sqrt((z(i)+d)^2+a^2))-(z(i)/sqrt(z(i)^2+a^2)));

end

Total_flux = 2*sum(flux);

delta_t = (2*eff_dist)/v;

emf = (N*Total_flux)/delta_t;

function [val] = scalingfunction(x)
fun = @(x,y) ((1./(y.^2+1).^(3/2))-(1./((y+x).^2 + 1)).^(3/2)).^2;
val = integral(@(y) fun(x,y),-Inf,Inf);
end[/CODE]
 

Attachments

You will not get much in the way of quantitative results.
Trying to analyze one coil turn at a time is hopeless. Just calculating the flux in a 1-turn coil with given current is beyond any introductory physics course.

You'd have better luck with a long solenoid in which case the two
situations (solenoid & tube) are equivalent. You'd have to know the mag moment of your magnet, for openers.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Delta2
Try to contact @kuruman , he has written a mini treatise on this problem , its not my intellectual property so I am not sure I am entitled to give it.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: vanhees71

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
3K
  • · Replies 42 ·
2
Replies
42
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
1K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
6K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K