Question about a stretched string's motion at the free end

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the motion of a stretched string at its free end, particularly focusing on the application of the wave equation and boundary conditions. Participants explore the implications of tension, movement constraints, and the mathematical relationships governing the motion of the string.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question why the derivative ∂Ψ/∂x should be zero at the free end, suggesting that tension may not be zero there.
  • Others propose that the end of the string is under axial tension but can move laterally, using the analogy of a ring on a frictionless rod.
  • It is noted that the derivation of the wave equation considers string elements with other elements on either side, and boundary conditions apply only to those at the boundary.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about using the formula ∂Ψ/∂x = -1/c ∂Ψ/∂t to determine the vertical velocity at the free end, questioning if it leads to contradictions regarding motion.
  • There is a discussion about the assumption that all movement is normal to the axis of the string, with some asserting that ∂Ψ/∂t should not be zero at the free end.
  • Participants inquire about the origin of the equation ∂Ψ/∂t = -c ∂Ψ/∂x and its applicability in the context of the wave equation.
  • There is a request for clarification on the derivation of the wave equation when considering different forms of ψ.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the assumptions regarding tension and movement at the free end of the string. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing interpretations of the wave equation and boundary conditions.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include potential misunderstandings about the application of boundary conditions, the assumptions regarding movement along the string, and the implications of substituting values into the wave equation.

Clara Chung
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  1. I don't know why ∂Ψ/∂x should be zero in (1.125). Shouldn't the tension be zero at the very last end?
  2. I don't know why we can apply the results of the wave equation at the free end because we assumed there are tension both sides of the string segment during the derivation of the wave equation.
 

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I don’t think they are assuming that the end of the string is totally unconstrained. I think they are assuming that the string is still under tension axially, but it is free to move laterally. Imagine the end of the string attached to a small ring, with a stationary frictionless rod running vertically through the ring. So the ring can move up and down on the rod, but not left and right.
 
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For the second question, the derivation of the wave equation was done by considering all string elements that have other string elements on either side. The imposition of boundary conditions does not violate this assumption, because boundary conditions only apply to those string elements that are on the boundary, i.e., to those string elements that do not have other string elements on either side.
 
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Thanks for the answer. In this case, does it mean I can't use the formula ∂Ψ/∂x=-1/c ∂Ψ/∂t, to get the vertical velocity =0 of the segment of the end of the string?
mfig said:
For the second question, the derivation of the wave equation was done by considering all string elements that have other string elements on either side. The imposition of boundary conditions does not violate this assumption, because boundary conditions only apply to those string elements that are on the boundary, i.e., to those string elements that do not have other string elements on either side.
 
Clara Chung said:
Thanks for the answer. In this case, does it mean I can't use the formula ∂Ψ/∂x=-1/c ∂Ψ/∂t, to get the vertical velocity =0 of the segment of the end of the string?
There is no significant movement of material along the axis of the string. All the movement is assumed to be normal to the axis, and the material velocity is just ##\partial \psi/\partial t##. The wave velocity is c. At the laterally unconstrained end, ##\partial \psi/\partial x=0##, but not ##\partial \psi/\partial t##.
 
Chestermiller said:
There is no significant movement of material along the axis of the string. All the movement is assumed to be normal to the axis, and the material velocity is just ##\partial \psi/\partial t##. The wave velocity is c. At the laterally unconstrained end, ##\partial \psi/\partial x=0##, but not ##\partial \psi/\partial t##.
I know that the wave velocity is c. However if I substitute ∂ψ/∂x=0 into ∂Ψ/∂x=-1/c ∂Ψ/∂t to find the normal velocity of the segment of the string at the free end, ∂Ψ/∂t becomes zero. This means the segment is not moving at all at the free end which is a contradiction.
 
Clara Chung said:
I know that the wave velocity is c. However if I substitute ∂ψ/∂x=0 into ∂Ψ/∂x=-1/c ∂Ψ/∂t to find the normal velocity of the segment of the string at the free end, ∂Ψ/∂t becomes zero. This means the segment is not moving at all at the free end which is a contradiction.
Where did the equation ##\frac{\partial \psi}{\partial t}=-c\frac{\partial \psi}{\partial x}## come from?
 
Chestermiller said:
Where did the equation ##\frac{\partial \psi}{\partial t}=-c\frac{\partial \psi}{\partial x}## come from?
It comes from the wave equation if ψ = f(kx-wt). Does it mean I can't use the equation because ψ = f(kx-wt) + g(kx+wt)?
 
Clara Chung said:
It comes from the wave equation if ψ = f(kx-wt). Does it mean I can't use the equation because ψ = f(kx-wt) + g(kx+wt)?
Please show how it derives from that ewuation.
 

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