Question about creation and annihilation operators?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the creation and annihilation operators in quantum mechanics, specifically how to derive the creation operator from the annihilation operator. Participants explore the mathematical properties of these operators, including the implications of taking the Hermitian conjugate (dagger) of operators and the behavior of specific operators like position and momentum.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion regarding the derivation of the creation operator from the annihilation operator, particularly about the signs that arise when taking the Hermitian conjugate.
  • Another participant points out an error in the computation of the momentum operator's dagger, asserting that the momentum operator must be Hermitian, thus leading to the conclusion that \( \hat{p}^\dagger = \hat{p} \).
  • A participant elaborates on the definition of the dagger operation for operators, referencing Dirac notation and the implications for Hermitian operators.
  • There is a discussion about whether the dagger operation can be distributed over the sum of operators, with some participants affirming that it can be done.
  • One participant introduces a broader context by discussing the harmonic oscillator and the role of functional analysis in quantum mechanics, mentioning the properties of the Schwartz test functions space.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the Hermitian nature of the momentum operator, but there is ongoing uncertainty regarding the application of the dagger operation and its distribution over sums of operators. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specific assumptions and implications of these operations.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on the definitions of operators and the conditions under which the dagger operation is applied. The discussion also highlights the need for well-behaved wave functions when considering the properties of the derivative operator.

21joanna12
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Hello! I am reading about the creation and annihilation operators and I don't get how you find the creation operator from the annihilation one. The creation one is

\hat{a}=\sqrt{\frac{m \omega}{2 \hbar}}\left( \hat{x}+\frac{i \hat{p}}{m \omega}\right)

and the annihilation operator is \hat{a}\dagger =\sqrt{\frac{m \omega}{2 \hbar}}\left( \hat{x}-\frac{i \hat{p}}{m \omega}\right)

I don't understand how taking the complex conjugate an transpose leads to the minus sign. I thought that \hat{x}=x and \hat{p}=i\hbar\frac{\partial}{\partial x} so \hat{x}\dagger=\hat{x}=x but
\hat{p}\dagger=-i\hbar\frac{\partial}{\partial x}=-\hat{p} which will cancel with the minus sign from complex conjugating the i, so that \hat{a}=\hat{a}\dagger.

I'm sure that this mistake is due to my unfamiliarity with the algebra of operators. I would appreciate it if someone could say which of my assumptions is wrong! My hunch is that it has something to do with taking the dagger of \left( \hat{x}+\frac{i \hat{p}}{m \omega}\right) and this not being equal to taking the dagger of the individual operators...

Thanks in advance!
 
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The problem is where you computed ##p^{\dagger}##. Since this is an operator corresponding to an observable (momentum), you know that it must be hermitian so that ##p^{\dagger} = p##. Therefore your error is in the computation of ##p^{\dagger}##. Find first how the operator ##d/dx## transforms under a hermitian conjugate.
 
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21joanna12 said:
I don't understand how taking the complex conjugate an transpose leads to the minus sign. I thought that \hat{x}=x and \hat{p}=i\hbar\frac{\partial}{\partial x} so \hat{x}\dagger=\hat{x}=x but
\hat{p}\dagger=-i\hbar\frac{\partial}{\partial x}=-\hat{p} which will cancel with the minus sign from complex conjugating the i, so that \hat{a}=\hat{a}\dagger.

For an operator, \hat{O}, the definition of \hat{O}^\dagger is a little technical: If you have two wave functions \psi and \phi, then according to Dirac notation:

\langle \phi | \psi \rangle = \int \phi(x)^* \psi(x) dx

Then the meaning of \hat{O}^\dagger is given by:

\langle \phi | \hat{O} \psi \rangle = \langle \hat{O}^\dagger \phi | \psi\rangle

In the case of a "hermitian" operator, \hat{O}^\dagger = \hat{O}, so we can just write:

\langle \phi | \hat{O} | \psi \rangle

and not worry about whether \hat{O} is acting to the right, on \psi, or acting to the left, on \phi.

In the special case where \hat{O} is the derivative operator, \frac{d}{dx}, you can prove\dagger:

\langle \phi | \frac{d}{dx} \psi \rangle = \langle (- \frac{d}{dx} \phi) | \psi \rangle

So (\frac{d}{dx})^\dagger = - \frac{d}{dx}

\daggerThis is only true when \phi and \psi are well-behaved wave functions. You prove this by integration by parts, and reasoning that \phi and \psi go to zero as x \rightarrow \pm \infty.
 
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stevendaryl said:
For an operator, \hat{O}, the definition of \hat{O}^\dagger is a little technical: If you have two wave functions \psi and \phi, then according to Dirac notation:

\langle \phi | \psi \rangle = \int \phi(x)^* \psi(x) dx

Then the meaning of \hat{O}^\dagger is given by:

\langle \phi | \hat{O} \psi \rangle = \langle \hat{O}^\dagger \phi | \psi\rangle

In the case of a "hermitian" operator, \hat{O}^\dagger = \hat{O}, so we can just write:

\langle \phi | \hat{O} | \psi \rangle

and not worry about whether \hat{O} is acting to the right, on \psi, or acting to the left, on \phi.

In the special case where \hat{O} is the derivative operator, \frac{d}{dx}, you can prove\dagger:

\langle \phi | \frac{d}{dx} \psi \rangle = \langle (- \frac{d}{dx} \phi) | \psi \rangle

So (\frac{d}{dx})^\dagger = - \frac{d}{dx}

\daggerThis is only true when \phi and \psi are well-behaved wave functions. You prove this by integration by parts, and reasoning that \phi and \psi go to zero as x \rightarrow \pm \infty.

Brilliant! Thank you both! I see now how \hat{p}\dagger=\hat{p}, but I'm also wondering whether you can distribute the 'dagger' over the bracket \left(\hat{x}+\frac{i\hat{p}}{m\omega}\right) by simply taking the 'dagger' of the components and i? Or am I thinking about this wrong?

Thank you! :)
 
21joanna12 said:
Brilliant! Thank you both! I see now how \hat{p}\dagger=\hat{p}, but I'm also wondering whether you can distribute the 'dagger' over the bracket \left(\hat{x}+\frac{i\hat{p}}{m\omega}\right) by simply taking the 'dagger' of the components and i? Or am I thinking about this wrong?

Thank you! :)
Yes, the \dagger operation distributes.
 
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stevendaryl said:
Yes, the \dagger operation distributes.

Technically, (AB + C)^\dagger = B^\dagger A^\dagger + C^\dagger
 
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The harmonic oscillator (in 1D) is the simplest possible example of how functional analysis makes the heart of quantum mechanics. A nice propery which enables us to use ladder operators is the fact that \mathcal{S}(\mathbb{R}) the Schwartz test functions space is a common dense everywhere domain of essential self-adjointness for both x and p. Hence it makes sense to consider the adjoint of a = x + \alpha p , where \alpha is a complex constant (number, not operator).

a^{\dagger} = \left(x + \alpha p \right)^{\dagger} \supseteq x^{\dagger} + (\alpha p)^{\dagger} \supseteq x +\alpha^{*} p

Since i^{*} = -i, that's how you end up with a minus before p. If the operators are restricted to \mathcal{S}(\mathbb{R}) from \mathcal{L}^2(\mathbb{R}), you're safe to use the equality sign.
 
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