Question about north and south poles of a magnet.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of magnetic poles, particularly focusing on the attraction between north and south poles of electromagnets and permanent magnets. Participants explore the underlying principles of electromagnetism and the conditions that lead to magnetic attraction.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the attraction between the south pole of one electromagnet and the north pole of another is due to the current flowing in the same direction in both circuits.
  • Another participant asserts that in a straight wire carrying current, there are no distinct north and south magnetic poles, as the magnetic field is circular around the wire.
  • A later reply suggests that winding the wire into a coil creates distinct north and south poles.
  • One participant challenges the relevance of previous responses, emphasizing the focus on closed loops producing a magnetic field.
  • Another participant states that the attraction is related to the energy of the system, suggesting that systems tend to prefer lower energy states, without further elaboration on how this applies to magnetic interactions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the mechanisms behind magnetic attraction, with no consensus reached on the explanations provided. Some participants challenge the relevance of others' contributions, indicating a lack of agreement on the discussion's focus.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the definitions of magnetic poles in different contexts, such as straight wires versus coils, and the implications of energy states in magnetic systems.

Pulzz
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I've always been taught: North poles attract south poles. Yesterday after studying electromagnetism, I've a question to ask. Here's a diagram:
4tXhD.png

In circuits like these, this is how the north and south poles of these electromagnets are defined. Now my question is, is the reason that the South pole of the first electromagnet(Its backside) attracted to the front of the electromagnet in the back because the two circuits have current flowing in the same direction? Is this why in general the north pole attracts the south pole? How does this work in a permanent magnet such as a bar magnet?
 
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Hi there
Welcome to PF :smile:

Pulzz said:
I've always been taught: North poles attract south poles. Yesterday after studying electromagnetism, I've a question to ask. Here's a diagram:...
In circuits like these, this is how the north and south poles of these electromagnets are defined. Now my question is, is the reason that the South pole of the first electromagnet(Its backside) attracted to the front of the electromagnet in the back because the two circuits have current flowing in the same direction? Is this why in general the north pole attracts the south pole? How does this work in a permanent magnet such as a bar magnet?

in a straight wire carrying current, there are no north and south magnetic poles as the magnetic field is circular ( a loop) around the wirecheers
Dave
 
davenn said:
Hi there
Welcome to PF :smile:
in a straight wire carrying current, there are no north and south magnetic poles as the magnetic field is circular ( a loop) around the wirecheers
Dave

I'm sorry, but I don't see how this answer is relevant to my question at all. My question is about two closed loops which produce a magnetic field as such:
curloo.gif
 
now if you wind the wire into a coil, then you can create magnetic N and S poles ...

magnetic-field-in-a-straight-coil-of-wire.gif
 
Pulzz said:
I'm sorry, but I don't see how this answer is relevant to my question at all. My question is about two closed loops which produce a magnetic field as such:

because you first drawings were showing straight sections of wire, so my answer was completely relevantD
 
Pulzz said:
Now my question is, is the reason that the South pole of the first electromagnet(Its backside) attracted to the front of the electromagnet in the back because the two circuits have current flowing in the same direction? Is this why in general the north pole attracts the south pole?

No. It's to do with the energy of the system. Systems tend to prefer lower energy states. This holds for all sorts of systems including those involving gravity and chemistry.

http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/64146/the-preference-for-low-energy-states
 

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