Question involving integration

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between pressure and volume during adiabatic processes in gases, specifically focusing on the equation pv^k = p0v0^k. Participants are exploring the mathematical derivation and implications of this relationship.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning, Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the differential equation relating pressure and volume, questioning the initial assumption that pressure varies inversely with volume. There is an exploration of the correct form of the equation and the role of the constant k in the relationship.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided guidance on the derivation process and clarified misunderstandings regarding the relationship between pressure and volume. There is acknowledgment of the correct formulation of the equation, and while some participants express uncertainty, others confirm the validity of the derived results.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating through the assumptions of adiabatic processes and the implications of the ideal gas law in their reasoning. There is a noted emphasis on ensuring the correct interpretation of the relationships involved.

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Homework Statement


When a gas undergoes an adiabatic compression or expansion (it neither gains nor loses heat), then the rate of change of pressure, with respect to the volume, varies directly with the pressure and inversely with the volume. If the pressure is p N/m² when the volume is v m³ and the initial pressure and initial volume are p0 N/m² and v0 m³, respectively, show that pvk = p0v0k.

2. The attempt at a solution

[tex]\frac{dp}{dv} = \frac{p}{v}[/tex]
[tex]\frac{p}{dp} = \frac{v}{dv}[/tex]
[tex]\int \frac{p}{dp} = \int \frac{v}{dv}[/tex]
[tex]\ln |p| = \ln |v| + \bar{c}[/tex]
[tex]e^{\ln v + \bar{c}} = p[/tex]
[itex]p = Cv^k[/itex] where [itex]C = e^{\bar{c}}[/itex]
[itex]p_0 = Cv_0^k[/itex]
So, it appears that p0/v0k = p/vk = C, but I'm not sure how to obtain that pvk = p0v0k.

Thank you in advance.
 
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pc2-brazil said:

Homework Statement


When a gas undergoes an adiabatic compression or expansion (it neither gains nor loses heat), then the rate of change of pressure, with respect to the volume, varies directly with the pressure and inversely with the volume. If the pressure is p N/m² when the volume is v m³ and the initial pressure and initial volume are p0 N/m² and v0 m³, respectively, show that pvk = p0v0k.

2. The attempt at a solution

[tex]\frac{dp}{dv} = \frac{p}{v}[/tex]

Where did you get that pressure varies inversely with volume?
I believe it doesn't in a reversible adiabatic process.

What you do have is:
du=-pdv (for a reversible adiabatic process)
du=cvdT
pv=RT (for an ideal gas)

If you combine them, I think you'll find a different relation for p and v.

pc2-brazil said:
[tex]\frac{p}{dp} = \frac{v}{dv}[/tex]
[tex]\int \frac{p}{dp} = \int \frac{v}{dv}[/tex]
[tex]\ln |p| = \ln |v| + \bar{c}[/tex]
[tex]e^{\ln v + \bar{c}} = p[/tex]
[itex]p = Cv^k[/itex] where [itex]C = e^{\bar{c}}[/itex]

I'm afraid this is not true.
You have p = C v.
There is no power k.

pc2-brazil said:
[itex]p_0 = Cv_0^k[/itex]
So, it appears that p0/v0k = p/vk = C, but I'm not sure how to obtain that pvk = p0v0k.

Thank you in advance.
 
I like Serena said:
Where did you get that pressure varies inversely with volume?
I believe it doesn't in a reversible adiabatic process.
I got that pressure varies inversely with volume from the question itself, unless I've misinterpreted it.

I like Serena said:
I'm afraid this is not true.
You have p = C v.
There is no power k.

Yes, actually I wrote it wrongly. I forgot to add k, the proportionality constant, to the differential equation. It should be:
[tex]\frac{dp}{dv} = k\frac{p}{v}[/tex]
[tex]\frac{dp}{p} = k\frac{dv}{v}[/tex]
[tex]\ln|p| = k\ln|v| + \bar{c}[/tex]
[tex]p = e^{k\ln v + \bar{c}}[/tex]
[tex]p = Cv^k[/tex]
But I'm still not sure how to obtain the desired result.

[EDIT]
If I write
[tex]\frac{dp}{p} = -k\frac{dv}{v}[/tex]
with a minus sign in front of k, I obtain:
[tex]\ln|p| = -k\ln|v| + \bar{c}[/tex]
[tex]\ln|p| + k\ln|v| = \bar{c}[/tex]
[tex]\ln|p| + \ln|v|^k = \bar{c}[/tex]
[tex]\ln|p||v|^k = \bar{c}[/tex]
[tex]pv^k = e^{\bar{c}}[/tex]
[tex]pv^k = C[/tex]
which seems to be the desired result, but I'm not very sure about it.

Thank you in advance.
 
Last edited:
This is correct!
 
I like Serena said:
This is correct!
Very good then, thank you for confirming.
 

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