Question on 3 circles with changing values

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a mathematical problem involving three circles with changing values, specifically focusing on the relationships between their radii and distances. Participants explore geometric properties, triangle similarity, and potential formulas to express these relationships.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes a geometric configuration involving circles C1, C2, and C3, and poses two specific problems regarding the distances OX based on varying values of r and OY.
  • Another participant points out a potential issue with the second part of the problem, noting that certain values for r and OY could place point Y inside circle C1, violating the problem's conditions.
  • A different participant suggests that the distances OP and PX are equal, leading to the conclusion that triangle OPX is isosceles, which could help in finding a general statement.
  • Further contributions emphasize the importance of finding the cosine of the angle between OP and OY to relate the triangles involved.
  • One participant shares a formula they derived for OX but later realizes it only holds for a specific case (r=1) and expresses confusion about deriving the correct formula, which another participant suggests is r^2/OY.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the geometric relationships and the similarity of triangles, but there is disagreement regarding the validity of certain values for r and OY, as well as the correctness of the derived formulas.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the placement of point Y relative to circle C1, and the implications of different values for r and OY on the problem's conditions. The discussion reflects ongoing exploration of mathematical relationships without reaching a definitive conclusion.

Jenna_B
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Hey everyone, my friend found this math problem that he couldn't figure out and gave to me. I thought it was quite interesting. So far I haven't been able to find a way to get into it though.

There's a circle, C1, with centre O and radius r. Point Y is anywhere outside the circle. Circle C3 has its centre at Y and its radius is OY. One of its points of intersection with C1 is P.
Another circle, C2, with the same radius as C1, has its centre at P (and thus passes through O).
A line passes through O and Y. C2 has another intersection with this line at X.

Here is an image I made of the problem:

uDiR4.jpg


The problem is twofold:
1. Let r = 1; find OX as OY equals 2, 3, and 4 (Find a general statement).
2. Let OY = 2; find OX as r = 2, 3, and 4 (Find a general statement).

Basically you need to find the value of OX as r and OY change, and find a formula for it. Can anyone suggest anything?

EDIT: I've figured out that triangles YOP and PXO are similar...maybe this will lead somewhere.
 
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There seems to be a problem with the 2nd part of the problem.
If we let OY = 2 and r = 2, then we break the given rule that Y must lie outside circle 1.
If we let r = 3 or 4, then Y lies inside circle 1.
If we let OY = 2 and r = 4 then circle 2 is the same as circle 3.
 
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Welcome to PF, Jenna_B! :smile:Here's a possible way to solve this.First you need to realize which distance are equal.

Since you circle C2 has its center in P and intersects at O and at X, this means that:
r = OP = PX.
So OPX is an isosceles triangle with sides r, r, and OX.

Circle C3 has its center in Y and intersects at O and at P, meaning:
s = OY = PY.
So OPY is also an isosceles triangle with sides s, s, and r.
Now let's take a look at the angle between OP and OY (which is the same angle as between OP and OX).
Let's call it alpha.

Do you know what the cosine of alpha is?
Look at triangle OPX as well as OPY.

From this you should be able to find a general statement...
 
You are right about the triangles being similar.
Find the cosine of \angle POY as related to each triangle.
You should find the answer.
 
Hey guys, thanks for all the replies!

I found a general formula but it wasn't the correct one; it only seemed to work for r=1. I was told by my teacher that the actual formula is r^2/OY, but I don't see a way that I could derive that...

For reference, my formula is OX = √((2r^2)(1-(cos(2cos^-1(r/OY)))))

EDIT: I got it, you simply had to equate CosPOY with the two triangles >.> Anyways, thanks for all the help guys!
 
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