Question on changing limits of integral

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    Integral Limits
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the process of changing the limits of an integral when performing a substitution in the context of statistical mechanics. Participants explore how to correctly transform the integral and its limits when substituting variables, specifically focusing on the integral involving the Bose-Einstein distribution.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents an integral and proposes a substitution, questioning how the limits change accordingly.
  • Another participant emphasizes the need to calculate the differential dx when substituting ω with x.
  • There is a discussion about the transformation of limits, specifically noting that when ω = 0, x = 0, and participants are encouraged to calculate x when ω = ω_D.
  • One participant mentions a potential mistake in the substitution process, suggesting that the integral should include a specific form after substitution.
  • Another participant echoes the concern about a mistake in the substitution and clarifies how the integral should be expressed after the change of variables.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the correctness of the substitution process and the resulting form of the integral. There is no consensus on the resolution of these disagreements, as some participants believe there are mistakes while others seek clarification.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference the need for careful handling of differentials and limits during variable substitution, indicating that assumptions about the relationships between variables may not be fully resolved.

rwooduk
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Say we have

[tex]\int_{0}^{\omega _{D}} \frac{\hbar \omega^{3}}{exp (\frac{\hbar\omega}{kT}) - 1} d\omega[/tex]

let

[tex]x = \frac{\hbar\omega}{kT}[/tex]

if we sub in we get

[tex](\frac{kT}{\hbar})^{3} (\frac{kT}{\hbar}) \int_{0}^{\omega _{D}} \frac{x^{3}}{exp (x) - 1} dx[/tex]

my question is how would the limits and integral change to get the limits in terms of x?

ANSWER:

[tex](\frac{kT}{\hbar})^{3} {kT} \int_{0}^{x _{D}} \frac{x^{3}}{exp (x) - 1} dx[/tex]

i.e. it removes a h-bar when the limits are changed, please could someone explain this?

thanks for any help
 
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rwooduk said:
Say we have

[tex]\int_{0}^{\omega _{D}} \frac{\hbar \omega^{3}}{exp (\frac{\hbar\omega}{kT}) - 1} d\omega[/tex]

let

[tex]x = \frac{\hbar\omega}{kT}[/tex]
Since you are replacing ##\omega## with x, you're going to need to calculate dx as well.
rwooduk said:
if we sub in we get

[tex](\frac{kT}{\hbar})^{3} (\frac{kT}{\hbar}) \int_{0}^{\omega _{D}} \frac{x^{3}}{exp (x) - 1} dx[/tex]

my question is how would the limits and integral change to get the limits in terms of x?
When ##\omega## = 0, it's pretty obvious that x = 0 as well. Use your substitution above to calculate x when ##\omega = \omega_D##.
rwooduk said:
ANSWER:

[tex](\frac{kT}{\hbar})^{3} {kT} \int_{0}^{x _{D}} \frac{x^{3}}{exp (x) - 1} dx[/tex]

i.e. it removes a h-bar when the limits are changed, please could someone explain this?

thanks for any help
 
Mark44 said:
Since you are replacing ##\omega## with x, you're going to need to calculate dx as well.
When ##\omega## = 0, it's pretty obvious that x = 0 as well. Use your substitution above to calculate x when ##\omega = \omega_D##.

Thanks for the reply, I already calculated dx/dw = h-bar/kT , that's where the second kT/h-bar comes from in the second equation. Not sure how what you are saying helps me determine how the new limit x on the integral changes what is in the equation. i.e. where the h-bar goes in the answer
 
You have made a mistake when you did your substitution. After your substitution you should have this:
$$\int \frac{\hbar(\frac{kT}{\hbar})^3x^3 \frac{kT}{\hbar}dx}{e^x - 1}$$
When simplified, this gives what you showed as the answer.
 
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Mark44 said:
You have made a mistake when you did your substitution. After your substitution you should have this:
$$\int \frac{\hbar(\frac{kT}{\hbar})^3x^3 \frac{kT}{\hbar}dx}{e^x - 1}$$
When simplified, this gives what you showed as the answer.

ahhh, ok thank you! i thought changing the limit effected the term somehow :-/ many thanks!
 

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