Question on integration by parts

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the integration of a complex expression related to a mass model for thesis work, specifically focusing on the application of integration by parts. Participants explore the challenges of integrating a Gaussian function combined with a polynomial term, and the implications of using definite versus indefinite integrals in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • The original poster expresses difficulty in integrating a specific expression and questions the validity of using different limits for parts of the integration.
  • Some participants note that certain integrals, like the error function, do not have closed form solutions and often require numerical evaluation.
  • One participant clarifies that integration by parts typically involves anti-derivatives rather than definite integrals, suggesting that the original poster's approach may not align with standard procedures.
  • Another participant questions the exact nature of the integration needed, seeking clarification on the variables involved in the expression.
  • There is mention of the fundamental theorem of calculus in relation to the relationship between anti-derivatives and definite integrals, but it is noted that continuity assumptions are necessary.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the approach to take for the integration problem. There are differing views on the use of definite versus indefinite integrals in the context of integration by parts, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the best method to apply.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight that the integration problem involves complex expressions that may not yield to standard techniques, and there are unresolved questions about the definitions and roles of the variables involved.

trmcclain
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I want to start out by saying that this is not a homework problem, this is something I'm trying to figure out for thesis work. If that should go in the homework problem section, I will gladly post there.

A certain mass model I'm working with (Bissant & Gerhard) has a particularly gross form.
exp(-(r'/rc)^2)*(1+r'/r0)^-α

Separating out constants and rearranging, I can massage it into this form:
λ^n*exp(-x^2)*(λ+x)^-n , where λ is constant and n is known (1.8 for those who want to know)

My problem is now I have to integrate this sucker, and I've never been particularly good at parts. I did find a guide and I was able to walk myself through it, however, my issue come here.
I separated it out as:
u=(λ+x)^-n, du=-n(λ+x)^(-n-1)dx
dv=exp(-x^2), v= <-- PROBLEM

Unless I integrate dv from 0 to infinity, the gaussian is sqrt(pi)/2 times an error function, which is useless to me.
So... Can I integrate the dv from 0 to infinity and set different limits to the subsequent integrals? i.e., can I have dv=exp(-x^2), v=sqrt(pi)/2, but when it comes to the uv-∫vdu, can I set that integral from 0 to some finite limit?

Any help is much appreciated, and as I said before, if this is better suited for another board, I will gladly post there.
 
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Some integrals do not have closed form solutions in terms of other elementary functions and must be evaluated numerically. The error function is one such integral which is encountered quite frequently, especially in statistical work. There are many other such integrals, but the fact that these integrals do not have closed form solutions has not prevented anyone from using them. Elliptic functions are just one such case, just like the error function.
 
trmcclain said:
So... Can I integrate the dv from 0 to infinity and set different limits to the subsequent integrals?

The procedure of integration by parts involves anti-derivatives, not definite integrals. So you can't evaluate any of the "[itex]\int[/itex] " involved between definite limits. You can express an anti-derivative as an integral where the upper limit of integration is a variable, such as [itex]\int cos(x) = \int_0^x {cos(w)} dw[/itex].

There might be a procedure "something like" integration by parts that uses definite integrals. Offhand, I don't remember it.
 
On this forum, you're more likely to get answers to problems invovling complicated expressions if you write them in latex. (See https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=3977517&postcount=3 )

I'm not sure exactly what integration needs to be done. As I make it out, you are asking for [itex]\int exp(-(r'/rc)^2)*(1+r'/r0)^{-α} dr[/itex].

Is [itex]r'[/itex] the derivative of a function [itex]r[/itex]?
 
Stephen Tashi said:
The procedure of integration by parts involves anti-derivatives, not definite integrals. So you can't evaluate any of the "[itex]\int[/itex] " involved between definite limits. You can express an anti-derivative as an integral where the upper limit of integration is a variable, such as [itex]\int cos(x) = \int_0^x {cos(w)} dw[/itex].

There might be a procedure "something like" integration by parts that uses definite integrals. Offhand, I don't remember it.
anti-derivatives and definite integrals are related by the fundamental theorem of calculus

$$\left. \int_a^b \! u \, \mathop{dv}= u \, v \right| _a^b -\int_a^b \! v \, \mathop{du}$$

of course there are continuity assumptions
 

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