Questioning Factor Groups: Understanding Properties and Theorems

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around factor groups, specifically properties and theorems related to finite groups and their subgroups. Participants are examining proofs and implications concerning normal subgroups, cosets, and the structure of certain groups like the alternating group A_4.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the implications of cosets in the context of normal subgroups and question the reasoning behind certain conclusions drawn in proofs. They discuss the properties of the alternating group A_4 and its subgroups, particularly regarding orders and isomorphisms. There is also inquiry into the relationship between finitely generated groups and their factor groups.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided clarifications and insights into the relationships between cosets and group structure. There is ongoing exploration of the implications of theorems related to factor groups, with multiple interpretations being considered. The discussion is productive, with participants engaging in reasoning and questioning assumptions.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the complexity of the concepts due to prior coursework and the need for clarity on specific statements regarding group properties. There is acknowledgment of potential gaps in understanding related to the structure of groups and their subgroups.

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I have a few question concerning factor groups.

1. In a proof for the fact that if a finite factor group G/N has 2 elements, then N is a normal subgroup of G, it says:
"For each a in G but not in H, both the left coset aH, and right coset Ha, must consist of all elements in G that are not in H".

Why is this so?

2. For the alternating group A_4, let H be a subgroup of order 6 (the point is to show there's no subgroup of order 6), it says that A_4/H = {H, sH} for some s in A_4 but not in H. Also, (H)(H) = H, (sH)(sH) = H. It then says, a in H implies a^2 in H, and b in sH implies b^2 in H. That is, the square of any element in A_4 must be in H.

Where does the last sentence come from? The line before that says the square of anything in H or sH is in H, so why does it then conclude this is also true for any element of A_4?

3. In an example, it says that (Z_4 x Z_6)/<(2,3)> has order 12 (just use lagrange's theorem), it then concludes that this factor group must be isomorphic to Z_4 x Z_3 or Z_2 x Z_2 x Z_3. (Z_n is the group {0, 1, ..., n-1}.)

I think it used the fundamental theorem of finitely generated abelian groups here. But that would require (Z_4 x Z_6)/<(2,3)> to be finitely generated. Is there any obvious way to see this? (It is obviously abelian).

We can see that (Z_4 x Z_6) = <(1,0) , (0,1)> so is finitely generated, but is there a theorem that says if G is finitely generated then so is its factor group G/N? (My textbook has a theorem that if G is cyclic then G/N is cyclic, but (Z_4 x Z_6) is not cyclic.) Or is every finite group finitely generated?
 
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I took algebra last semester, and it is already fuzzy in my mind. See if the following helps.
  1. Two left cosets {H, aH}. Two right cosets {H, Ha}. G = H ∪ aH = H ∪ Ha. Hence, aH = Ha = G-H.
  2. |A4| = 12. |H| = 6. Do you see how the conclusion now follows from #1?
  3. If G is finite, then it is trivially finitely generated by all of itself.
 
Tedjn said:
I took algebra last semester, and it is already fuzzy in my mind. See if the following helps.

[*]Two left cosets {H, aH}. Two right cosets {H, Ha}. G = H ∪ aH = H ∪ Ha. Hence, aH = Ha = G-H.
Ahh right. I forgot that the set of coset partition the group. Then the result is obvious.
Tedjn said:
[*]|A4| = 12. |H| = 6. Do you see how the conclusion now follows from #1?
I knew that #1 implied everything up until the last sentence. I'm still not sure where the last sentence comes from.
Tedjn said:
[*]If G is finite, then it is trivially finitely generated by all of itself.
[/LIST]
I see.
 
Because A4 = H ∪ sH.
 
Hey. Thanks for the help!
 
Last edited:

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