Schools Queston about college-level coursework

[FishmanGeertz]

I have a few questions about the contrast in difficulty between high school and college-level coursework.

How much more advanced is the "general education" curriculum in college, when compared to high school?

I have a learning disability solely in mathematics. I struggle to fathom the very bare basics of algebra. Will a post-secondary school omit much of the extremely difficult college math because of my disability? Obviously math-intensive courses like physics, engineering, business, economics, and compsci, are probably out of the question for me.

 

[chiro]

I have a few questions about the contrast in difficulty between high school and college-level coursework.

How much more advanced is the "general education" curriculum in college, when compared to high school?

I have a learning disability solely in mathematics. I struggle to fathom the very bare basics of algebra. Will a post-secondary school omit much of the extremely difficult college math because of my disability? Obviously math-intensive courses like physics, engineering, business, economics, and compsci, are probably out of the question for me.

I can't comment on general education courses since I don't take any (and haven't) but I can say this about all courses in university (at least mine):

You have a lot of resources at your disposal for you to use to help you in university (or college). You have other students, lecturers, TA's, course coordinators, libraries and so on. Leverage your resources to get what you need to get done what you need to get done.

There are even courses that help you with things like writing essays, doing research and other common things that courses require.

Also the main difference between high school and university is that you have to take full responsibility for your learning. If you don't take responsibility, you will fail and waste money.

 

[Geezer]

Also the main difference between high school and university is that you have to take full responsibility for your learning. If you don't take responsibility, you will fail and waste money.

Very true. University professors are NOT teachers. They're not trained to teach, and some--not all, but some--even disdain teaching, which means you're on your own as far as learning the material goes. It's assumed that college students are adults; adults should know what it takes for them to learn and do it. If that means doing extra problem sets (even ones that aren't required or assigned) or doing extra reading (be it from the assigned textbook or any other book) to "get" the material on your own, then that's what it takes. You can't fault a professor for not teaching the concept thoroughly enough for you. A professor is there for his/her expertise in an esoteric or difficult subject, not because he/she is a "good teacher."

 

[Geezer]

I have a learning disability solely in mathematics. I struggle to fathom the very bare basics of algebra. Will a post-secondary school omit much of the extremely difficult college math because of my disability? Obviously math-intensive courses like physics, engineering, business, economics, and compsci, are probably out of the question for me.

Most all universities in the US require at least one course in college-level mathematics in order to get your degree. It's a part of the general education requirement (the same reason physics and math students still have to a take a foreign language, or a course in psychology or philosophy).

 

[FishmanGeertz]

Most all universities in the US require at least one course in college-level mathematics in order to get your degree. It's a part of the general education requirement (the same reason physics and math students still have to a take a foreign language, or a course in psychology or philosophy).

I am an IEP (individualized education program) meaning that colleges are required to help me in some way with my disability.

 

[Pengwuino]

I am an IEP (individualized education program) meaning that colleges are required to help me in some way with my disability.

There's actually a plethora of services provided for students with disabilities. Students with ADD might be allowed much longer and private testing sessions, they may require private one-on-one attention, note taking, etc etc. There's a ton of medical and psychological services universities offer as part of enrollment (aka you're entitled to them by paying tuition). Students typically don't even know these services exist even though some of the services are for students with no documented disability! Universities have entire departments for this stuff, so don't worry about not having support or resources available to you.

 

[FishmanGeertz]

There's actually a plethora of services provided for students with disabilities. Students with ADD might be allowed much longer and private testing sessions, they may require private one-on-one attention, note taking, etc etc. There's a ton of medical and psychological services universities offer as part of enrollment (aka you're entitled to them by paying tuition). Students typically don't even know these services exist even though some of the services are for students with no documented disability! Universities have entire departments for this stuff, so don't worry about not having support or resources available to you.

Is there a chance much of the extremely advanced-level mathematics can be omitted? I do not plan on majoring/minoring in any math-heavy subject.

 

[Geezer]

There's actually a plethora of services provided for students with disabilities. Students with ADD might be allowed much longer and private testing sessions, they may require private one-on-one attention, note taking, etc etc. There's a ton of medical and psychological services universities offer as part of enrollment (aka you're entitled to them by paying tuition). Students typically don't even know these services exist even though some of the services are for students with no documented disability! Universities have entire departments for this stuff, so don't worry about not having support or resources available to you.

I was diagnosed with ADHD years ago; it never occurred to me to get any assistance from my school, though.

 

[Geezer]

Is there a chance much of the extremely advanced-level mathematics can be omitted? I do not plan on majoring/minoring in any math-heavy subject.

You're going to have to call your school and find out.

I'm curious: What's the name of your condition? I've never heard of a specific math disability before.

 

[jtbell]

extremely advanced-level mathematics can be omitted?

What do you consider to be "extremely advanced-level mathematics"?

 

[Pengwuino]

Is there a chance much of the extremely advanced-level mathematics can be omitted? I do not plan on majoring/minoring in any math-heavy subject.

What are you planning on majoring in? All students need some form of mathematics. Most STEM degrees will require calculus and i can't imagine they would waive it. I doubt you'll be able to get any courses omitted since by being awarded an agree, the university is saying that you have a certain level of proficiency in all areas covered in the degree.

I was diagnosed with ADHD years ago; it never occurred to me to get any assistance from my school, though.

A lot of students are unaware, you're part of the majority. Like any department or government service, how effective they are at reaching out to potential users is pretty random.

 

[Geezer]

What do you consider to be "extremely advanced-level mathematics"?

I was wondering that, too. To me, calculus is freshman-level math, for example.

 

[Chunkysalsa]

Anything involving hard science is going to require a lot of math. No way to waiver that since all your classes will involve it. Biology students generally take a semester of calculus and statistics. Business students also do a semester of calc and stats but they have like watered down versions (at least at my school). Computer Science generally does a little bit less than the science kids but also do discrete math type courses.

Everybody else only has to take math classes for general education. These are not advanced level classes at all. My school offers some very weak classes for these students. At most you might have to do college algebra and if you graduated high school you'll be fine.

And yea most places offer some services for kids with disabilities. A friend of mine with dyslexia gets to take all his tests alone and with extra time. He also gets to be one of the first people to register for classes, unlucky lucky SOB.

 

[Jack21222]

I struggle to fathom the very bare basics of algebra.

The very bare basics of algebra require almost no understanding. It's just a mechanical process, much like making a sandwich. I cannot imagine a learning disability which prevents you from doing introductory algebra, but allows you to make a sandwich.

 

[Chunkysalsa]

well I know of disorders that are sort of like Dyslexia but involve numbers rather than letters.

 

[eri]

Keep in mind that the general education classes most (but not all) schools require are still part of some major - they're not meant to be easy A's, they're meant to challenge you in some way to learn something new. Professors aren't going to let you slide just because you don't need the class for your major or didn't want to take it.

Most colleges require you pass at least one, if not more, college level math classes regardless of your major. While they do offer services for disabled students, that doesn't mean they have to let you graduate without meeting the basic requirements, or dumb a class down so far that it's completely useless for you to pass it - not to mention the science requirements also expect you to be able to do algebra at the least, and won't let you out of that either. If you think you'll have that much trouble, consider not going to college in the first place. It's definitely not for everyone.

 

[Geezer]

I am an IEP (individualized education program) meaning that colleges are required to help me in some way with my disability.

But "accommodation" doesn't necessarily mean "exemption." I can see a university offering you free tutoring services, extra time for tests, and the like, but it's unfathomable to me that they would exempt you from taking any math course.

 

[Geezer]

well I know of disorders that are sort of like Dyslexia but involve numbers rather than letters.

I have as well, but I don't actually know the names of any such disabilities. I'm curious about the particular affliction the OP has so I can look it up and learn more about it.

 

[Geezer]

The very bare basics of algebra require almost no understanding. It's just a mechanical process, much like making a sandwich. I cannot imagine a learning disability which prevents you from doing introductory algebra, but allows you to make a sandwich.

That's how I feel about it. I wasn't exactly an attentive kid when I was younger--that whole ADHD thing, you know--but I still aced algebra; it's just so logical and internally consistent...it just always made sense to me.

 

[chiro]

I have as well, but I don't actually know the names of any such disabilities. I'm curious about the particular affliction the OP has so I can look it up and learn more about it.

Maybe this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyscalculia

 

[Geezer]

Maybe this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyscalculia

Interesting article.

Oddly enough, I have some of these issues, including:

Particularly problems with differentiating between left and right.

Difficulty in activities requiring sequential processing, from the physical (such as dance steps or sports) to the abstract (signaling things in the right order). May have trouble even with a calculator due to difficulties in the process of feeding in variables.

Low latent inhibition, i.e., over-sensitivity to noise, smell, light and the inability to tune out, filtering unwanted information or impressions. Might have a well-developed sense of imagination due to this (possibly as cognitive compensation to mathematical-numeric deficits).

Mistaken recollection of names. Poor name/face retrieval. May substitute names beginning with same letter.

I do have trouble doing things sequentially; for example, I can't cook following a recipe. And it's also part of the reason I have trouble communicating verbally: the words just don't organize themselves in the proper order in my mind.

And I definitely have zero ability to tune out noise, though it doesn't result in me having a strong imagination. Quite the opposite, actually. In fact, I'm generally overly sensitive to just about any physical stimulus.

And I also have issues with left/right; for example, I've been known to drive on the wrong side of the road. However, I have awesome spatial and navigational skills--e.g., it's impossible for me to get lost in a place I drove to--so I always know which way is North, South, East, and West. So, when I need to get onto the road, I identify the lane of cars heading in the direction I want to go (e.g., South) and then get in the lane behind them. Yeah, it's pretty much as scary as it sounds...

I also have a hard time recognizing faces out of context. I once ran into my babysitter at the grocery store--the same lady who's watched my kid countless times--but she was in an out-of-context place for my brain (i.e., she was at the store instead of at our apartment building) and I seriously didn't recognize her until she asked me how our daughter was doing.

Hmm...

Maybe I could use an IEP, too?

 

[Geezer]

Regarding the innate ability to "subitizing" or:

The earliest symptom of dyscalculia to appear is a deficit in subitizing. Subitizing is the ability to know, from a brief glance and without counting, how many objects there are in a small group.

Here's an online test you can take. It's fun and not too long. I got a perfect 100% score.

link: https://www.testmybrain.org/consent_all.php?exp=61

 

[FishmanGeertz]

You're going to have to call your school and find out.

I'm curious: What's the name of your condition? I've never heard of a specific math disability before.

Probably a mild case of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyscalculia" . My math comprehension was just two points below the "average" standard deviation on the test administered to me in high school. So my disability isn't too profound. All the other areas were average/above average.

I just don't understand what the letters and strange symbols mean in math beyond basic arithmetic.

 

[mcdowellmg]

Most schools have a basic math course. For example, we had an Intro to College Math where they taught basic life-applicable things such as calculating interest rates and converting measurements (all very basic). The class was for liberal arts majors.

 

[Geezer]

Probably a mild case of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyscalculia" . My math comprehension was just two points below the "average" standard deviation on the test administered to me in high school. So my disability isn't too profound. All the other areas were average/above average.

You have an IEP for being ever-so-slightly below average in math?

I just don't understand what the letters and strange symbols mean in math beyond basic arithmetic.

Numerals--0, 1, 2, 3, etc.--are just symbols, too. It doesn't matter what we call the quantity we're dealing with. It can be "3" or "19" or "X" or \alpha or \Delta it's all treated the same way.

 

[FishmanGeertz]

You have an IEP for being ever-so-slightly below average in math?



Numerals--0, 1, 2, 3, etc.--are just symbols, too. It doesn't matter what we call the quantity we're dealing with. It can be "3" or "19" or "X" or \alpha or \Delta it's all treated the same way.

I believe that with thorough training and tutoring, I would be able to perform the more advanced maths, but with difficulty and struggle.

 

[Geezer]

I believe that with thorough training and tutoring, I would be able to perform the more advanced maths, but with difficulty and struggle.

That's true for a lot of students, even those without any learning issues. Math comes readily to some, and it's more challenging for others. Some people just have to work harder at it in order to "get" it. That's just how it is.

 

[Pengwuino]

I believe that with thorough training and tutoring, I would be able to perform the more advanced maths, but with difficulty and struggle.

Any good education, no matter what field, should be difficult and constitute a struggle.

 

[thegreenlaser]

Talk to the schools you're interested in. See if they can tell you about any programs they have in place for people like you, because every school will probably be slightly different. Also, understand that while university professors are unlike high school teachers in that they won't push you to succeed, they are usually very helpful so long as you ask them to help and show them that you're willing to put in the effort to learn.

 

[FishmanGeertz]

Talk to the schools you're interested in. See if they can tell you about any programs they have in place for people like you, because every school will probably be slightly different. Also, understand that while university professors are unlike high school teachers in that they won't push you to succeed, they are usually very helpful so long as you ask them to help and show them that you're willing to put in the effort to learn.

Is it true that if you don't attend a big university, you're pretty much dead in the water in terms of finding a stable, decent-paying job or career?

 

[AlephZero]

Is it true that if you don't attend a big university, you're pretty much dead in the water in terms of finding a stable, decent-paying job or career?

Only if you have a narrow minded view of what a "stable decent-paying job or career" is.

The basic qualifications are being human (which fails a surprisingly high percentage of species homo sapiens) and not taking the attitude that the world owes you a living.

 

[FishmanGeertz]

Only if you have a narrow minded view of what a "stable decent-paying job or career" is.

The basic qualifications are being human (which fails a surprisingly high percentage of species homo sapiens) and not taking the attitude that the world owes you a living.

I know people who recently graduated from universities, and move back home to live with mom and dad because they are utterly unable to find work. One of which graduated from Dartmouth.

My father worked for an oil drilling company in Texas, and one of his friends there dropped out of high school, got a small job with the company, and eventually got promoted to a position where he makes $250,000+ per year. And he never even finished high school!

All I hear about today are college graduates (even ivy-leaguers) being unable to find work. The poor economy might play a significant role in that. This might change if the (economy) hopefully improves over the next few years.

 

[twofish-quant]

All I hear about today are college graduates (even ivy-leaguers) being unable to find work. The poor economy might play a significant role in that. This might change if the (economy) hopefully improves over the next few years.

One of the reasons of getting an education is so that you have some degree of control over your future. If the problem is the bad economy, then you are in better shape of you learn some economics so that you can see what's coming and do something about it.

Also, learning history is useful. What I've had to go through is nowhere near as bad as anything my parents or great parents had to go through so having a sense of history let's you put your own problems in perspective.