Quick question about convergence

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the uniform convergence of a sequence of functions defined as ##s_n(x) = \frac{1}{n} e^{-(nx)^2}## and its derivatives. Participants are tasked with showing that there exists a function ##s(x)## such that ##s_n(x) → s(x)## uniformly on ##ℝ##, while the convergence of the derivatives ##s_n'(x) → s'(x)## is not uniform in any interval containing the origin.

Discussion Character

  • Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore pointwise and uniform convergence, questioning how to demonstrate the lack of uniform convergence for the derivatives. They discuss calculating the supremum of the difference between the derivatives over an interval around the origin and consider the implications of this calculation.

Discussion Status

Some participants have made progress in calculating the supremum of the derivative differences and are considering the implications of their findings on uniform convergence. There is an ongoing exploration of the maximum values of the functions involved and the behavior of these maxima as ##n## approaches infinity.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the notation and methods for finding maxima, indicating a need for clarification on calculus techniques. The discussion also reflects on the specific behavior of the functions near the origin, which is critical to understanding the convergence properties.

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Homework Statement



Let ##s_n(x) = \frac{1}{n} e^{-(nx)^2}##. Show there is a function ##s(x)## such that ##s_n(x) → s(x)## uniformly on ##ℝ## and that ##s_n'(x) → s'(x)## for every x, but that the convergence of the derivatives is not uniform in any interval which contains the origin.

Homework Equations



##s_n(x) → s(x)## as ##n→∞##

The Attempt at a Solution



For any real x, ##s_n(x) → 0 = s(x)## as ##n→∞## so we have pointwise convergence.

##\forall ε>0, \exists N(ε) \space | \space n>N \Rightarrow |s_n(x)-s(x)| < ε, \forall x \in ℝ##

##|s_n(x) - s(x)| ≤ 1/n##

So choosing ##n > 1/ε## means we have uniform convergence.

##s_n'(x) = -2xne^{-(nx)^2}##

Now, for all real x ##s_n'(x) → 0 = s'(x)## as ##n→∞##.

##|s_n'(x) - s'(x)| = 2|x|ne^{-(nx)^2}##

I'm stuck on showing the convergence of the derivatives is not uniform in any interval containing the origin. Don't really know how to argue this one.
 
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Let ##(-\varepsilon,\varepsilon)## be an interval around the origin.

1) Can you calculate

A_n=\sup_{x\in (-\varepsilon,\varepsilon)} |s_n^\prime(x) - s^\prime(x)|

2) Does ##A_n\rightarrow 0##?

3) What does (2) say about uniform convergence?
 
micromass said:
Let ##(-\varepsilon,\varepsilon)## be an interval around the origin.

1) Can you calculate

A_n=\sup_{x\in (-\varepsilon,\varepsilon)} |s_n^\prime(x) - s^\prime(x)|

2) Does ##A_n\rightarrow 0##?

3) What does (2) say about uniform convergence?

A_n=\sup_{x \in (-ε, ε)} |s_n&#039;(x) - s&#039;(x)| = \sup_{x \in (-ε, ε)} 2|x|ne^{-(nx)^2}

That's some new notation on me. I've never seen sup used in such a way.

(2) I would assume not.

(3) Not uniform, but pointwise.
 
Zondrina said:
A_n=\sup_{x \in (-ε, ε)} |s_n&#039;(x) - s&#039;(x)| = \sup_{x \in (-ε, ε)} 2|x|ne^{-(nx)^2}

That's some new notation on me. I've never seen sup used in such a way.

Let's take a compact interval ##[-\varepsilon,\varepsilon]## instead then. Then the ##\sup## is actually a ##\max## then.

So, when I'm asking for ##\sup_{x \in [-\varepsilon,\varepsilon]} 2|x|ne^{-(nx)^2}##, I'm looking for the maximum value of this function.

So use calculus to find where the function ##g_n(x)= 2|x|e^{-(nx)^2}## takes on its maximum and calculate the maximum.
 
micromass said:
Let's take a compact interval ##[-\varepsilon,\varepsilon]## instead then. Then the ##\sup## is actually a ##\max## then.

So, when I'm asking for ##\sup_{x \in [-\varepsilon,\varepsilon]} 2|x|ne^{-(nx)^2}##, I'm looking for the maximum value of this function.

So use calculus to find where the function ##g_n(x)= 2|x|ne^{-(nx)^2}## takes on its maximum and calculate the maximum.

Alright, that makes sense. I'll even pick the real open interval (-ε,ε) containing 0 since i see it doesn't matter now.

With how the interval and ##|s_n(x) - s(x)|## are defined I have 2 possible functions to examine.

Finding the maximums of these functions with regular calculus seems to be far beyond my understanding.

##|s_n(x) - s(x)| = 2xne^{-(nx)^2}## for ##0 ≤ x < ε##
##|s_n(x) - s(x)| = -2xne^{-(nx)^2}## for ##-ε < x ≤ 0##

How do I find the maximum? It's not like I can take the derivative and find criticals of this monster.
 
Zondrina said:
It's not like I can take the derivative and find criticals of this monster.

Why not?
 
micromass said:
Why not?

It looks terrible, but for the case where x is positive I took the derivative and found ##x = ± \frac{1}{ n \sqrt{2}}## to be the roots of the derivative.

For the case where x is negative, I took the derivative and found the same roots.
 
Ok, so the maximum is reached in ##1/(n\sqrt{2})##. The value in that point is

f(1/(n\sqrt{2})) = \frac{2}{\sqrt{2}}e^{-1/2}

So, we see that

\sup_{x\in (-\varepsilon,+\varepsilon)} |s_n^\prime(x)-s^\prime(x)| = \frac{2}{\sqrt{2}} e^{-1/2}

Does this converge to ##0## if n goes to infinity?? (obviously not)

Can you deduce from this that convergence is not uniform?
 
micromass said:
Ok, so the maximum is reached in ##1/(n\sqrt{2})##. The value in that point is

f(1/(n\sqrt{2})) = \frac{2}{\sqrt{2}}e^{-1/2}

So, we see that

\sup_{x\in (-\varepsilon,+\varepsilon)} |s_n^\prime(x)-s^\prime(x)| = \frac{2}{\sqrt{2}} e^{-1/2}

Does this converge to ##0## if n goes to infinity?? (obviously not)

Can you deduce from this that convergence is not uniform?

Ohhhhhh I see where you were going with this now. So since the supremum over (-ε,ε) of ##|s_n(x) - s(x)|## doesn't go to zero we know that the convergence of the derivatives can't possibly be uniform.

If it were to be uniform, the difference would go to zero if we subtract the sequence from the limiting function ( or vice versa ).
 

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