Radiation pressure from light source

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of radiation pressure from a light source, specifically focusing on an isotropic point light source and its interaction with a convex lens. Participants explore the relationship between photon energy, momentum, and the force exerted on the lens.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the derivation of the force exerted by light on a lens, questioning the assumptions about momentum transfer and the conditions under which light can exert force. There are attempts to relate the problem to concepts of scattering and gradient forces in optical trapping.

Discussion Status

There is ongoing exploration of the problem with various interpretations being discussed. Some participants have shared their attempts and expressed uncertainty about specific aspects, while others have provided insights into the underlying physics without reaching a consensus.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the challenge of deriving the expression for force and question the implications of light not being absorbed or reflected by the lens. There is mention of the relevance of this problem to Olympiad and entrance exam contexts.

AdityaDev
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The energy of photon is $$E=\frac{hc}{\lambda}$$
Now if we have an isotropic point light source of power P,
Number of photons $$N=\frac{P}{E} = \frac{P \lambda}{hc}$$
Hence one can find the change in momentum and hence the force exerted by a beam or light sources.
But let's say we keep an isotropic light source at a point on the optical axis of a convex lens such that rays emerge parallel to axis after refraction.The lens does not absorb nor reflect any light energy.
Then the force exerted by the light source on lens is given by:
$$F=\frac{P}{2c}(1-\frac{d}{\sqrt [2]{r^2 + d^2}} - \frac{r^2}{2(r^2 + d^2)})$$
How do derive the expression?
My attempt:
Lets say a ray approaches at an angle ##\theta##
Then initial momentum of a single photon = ##m(vcos\theta + vsin\theta )## and final momentum is ##mv##
Hence, $$\delta p = \frac {h}{\lambda}(1-cos\theta -sin\theta)$$
 
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AdityaDev said:
The energy of photon is $$E=\frac{hc}{\lambda}$$
Now if we have an isotropic point light source of power P,
Number of photons $$N=\frac{P}{E} = \frac{P \lambda}{hc}$$
Hence one can find the change in momentum and hence the force exerted by a beam or light sources.
But let's say we keep an isotropic light source at a point on the optical axis of a convex lens such that rays emerge parallel to axis after refraction.The lens does not absorb nor reflect any light energy.
Then the force exerted by the light source on lens is given by:
$$F=\frac{P}{2c}(1-\frac{d}{\sqrt [2]{r^2 + d^2}} - \frac{r^2}{2(r^2 + d^2)})$$
How do derive the expression?
My attempt:
Lets say a ray approaches at an angle ##\theta##
Then initial momentum of a single photon = ##m(vcos\theta + vsin\theta )## and final momentum is ##mv##
Hence, $$\delta p = \frac {h}{\lambda}(1-cos\theta -sin\theta)$$
What's m? The mass of a photon is zero, instead the photon's momentum is given by ##p=E/c##
 
Vagn said:
What's m? The mass of a photon is zero, instead the photon's momentum is given by ##p=E/c##
That's only for relation. I am relating this to a case where you have a ball instead of photon but the final expression is correct
 
AdityaDev said:
.The lens does not absorb nor reflect any light energy.
Then the force exerted by the light source on lens is given by:

I don't think the light can exert a force if it isn't reflected or absorbed.
 
AdityaDev said:
<snip>
But let's say we keep an isotropic light source at a point on the optical axis of a convex lens such that rays emerge parallel to axis after refraction.The lens does not absorb nor reflect any light energy.<snip>

This is more interesting than I thought: on the face of it, there is no net force because the light field appears symmetric: by analogy, objects located in the center of my optical trap experience no net force.

However, there is a the change in momentum along the optical axis, because a ray enters the lens at angle Θ with respect to the optical axis and leaves the lens parallel to the optical axis. In optical trapping it's sometimes referred to as the 'scattering force', and the previous paragraph then refers to the 'gradient force'. The formula you presented likely quantifies that; it looks familiar but I can't recall the context...
 
Andy Resnick said:
However, there is a the change in momentum along the optical axis, because a ray enters the lens at angle Θ with respect to the optical axis and leaves the lens parallel to the optical axis. In optical trapping it's sometimes referred to as the 'scattering force', and the previous paragraph then refers to the 'gradient force'.

Interesting. I wouldn't have thought of refracting the light as scattering. I assume that if the light beam changes direction between entering and exiting the lens then it must transfer momentum to the lens?
 
Drakkith said:
I assume that if the light beam changes direction between entering and exiting the lens then it must transfer momentum to the lens?
Of course, conservation of momentum.
 
Andy Resnick said:
This is more interesting than I thought: on the face of it, there is no net force because the light field appears symmetric: by analogy, objects located in the center of my optical trap experience no net force.

However, there is a the change in momentum along the optical axis, because a ray enters the lens at angle Θ with respect to the optical axis and leaves the lens parallel to the optical axis. In optical trapping it's sometimes referred to as the 'scattering force', and the previous paragraph then refers to the 'gradient force'. The formula you presented likely quantifies that; it looks familiar but I can't recall the context...
I have posted a picture of my attempt. I not good in LaTeX code. Please go through it and correct my mistakes if you can. It will benefit me a lot. I am close to the answer
 
AdityaDev said:
I<snip> I am close to the answer

I agree!
 
  • #10
Andy Resnick said:
I agree!
Where am I going wrong?
These type of question comes in Olympiads and entrance exams.
Why not a separate forum for Olympiads and entrance exams?
 
  • #11
I have been trying this problem for 2 days.
Where am I going wrong? I have uploaded the working. (Picture oriented sideways and deleted by Mod)
 
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