Radioactive decay and relativity

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the effects of relativistic speeds on the half-life of radioactive decay, exploring whether the half-life changes when a sample is accelerated close to the speed of light. Participants also examine the implications of nonexponential decay and its relevance to the original question posed.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the half-lives of unstable elementary particles increase with speed due to relativistic time dilation, which is observed in particle-accelerator experiments.
  • Others argue that the probability of an individual particle decaying remains constant over time, leading to a constant half-life, and cite a lack of evidence for changes in half-life.
  • A participant mentions that the exponential decay law is theoretically incompatible with quantum mechanics, referencing Khalfin's work, but acknowledges the difficulty in observing deviations from this law.
  • Some participants challenge the relevance of discussing nonexponential decay in relation to the original question about half-life changes over time.
  • Concerns are raised about the validity of probability assumptions in small samples of radioisotopes, suggesting that these assumptions may not hold as the sample size decreases.
  • A later reply introduces the idea that the decay probability distribution function (pdf) could change dramatically across a horizon, implying that the exponential law may not apply uniformly in such scenarios.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the half-life of radioactive decay changes over time and the relevance of nonexponential decay. There is no consensus on the implications of these discussions, and multiple competing perspectives remain.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the theoretical aspects of decay nonexponentiality are difficult to observe, and there are unresolved questions regarding the assumptions underlying the probability models used in radioactive decay.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying relativistic effects in particle physics, quantum mechanics, and the theoretical implications of radioactive decay models.

curiousOne
Messages
21
Reaction score
1
Does the half life of a particular radioactive decay change if the sample is accelerated close to the speed of light ?
Didn't Hawking answer that question in the 1980's ?
Shouldn't the half life itself change over time ? (since the normal pdf is the one with the most entropy of information and radioactive decay increases the entropy of the material, I'm concluding the pdf itself should bias after a while. )
J.D.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
curiousOne said:
Does the half life of a particular radioactive decay change if the sample is accelerated close to the speed of light ?

Sure. The half-lives of unstable elementary particles increase as their speed increases, exactly according to relativistic time dilation. This is routinely observed and taken account of at particle-accelerator laboratories.

When I was in grad school, one of my friends worked on an experiment that studied sigma and xi hyperons, using beams that were a meter or two long (before decay) because of time dilation. Without the time dilation, the experiment would have been impossible because the beams would have decayed before they even entered the detector!

Shouldn't the half life itself change over time ?

As far as we know, the probability that a particular individual particle decays during the next second is contstant, regardless of how long the particle has already "lived," or whether the other particles in a sample have decayed or not. This leads to a constant half-life. I don't remember ever seeing any evidence to the contrary.
 
jtbell said:
As far as we know, the probability that a particular individual particle decays during the next second is contstant, regardless of how long the particle has already "lived," or whether the other particles in a sample have decayed or not. This leads to a constant half-life. I don't remember ever seeing any evidence to the contrary.
On the other hand, it might be noteworthy that, strictly speaking, the exponential law is incompatible with quantum mechanics (this is an old result by Khalfin). It is very difficult to observe the deviations from the exponential law though. Some details and a reference to Khalfin's work can be found in Nature vol. 335, p. 298 (22 September 1988)
 
akhmeteli said:
this is an old result by Khalfin

But not really relevant to the question.
 
Vanadium 50 said:
But not really relevant to the question.
One of the questions the original poster asked and jtbell answered was "Shouldn't the half life itself change over time ?" Nonexponential decay means the half life is not constant in time. So why do you believe my post was irrelevant?
 
The predicted exponential decay is based on probability which only works well if there are a large number of radioisotopes.As this number reduces the probability assumptions become less valid as does the definition of half life.
 
akhmeteli said:
Nonexponential decay means the half life is not constant in time. So why do you believe my post was irrelevant?

First, the Misra and Sudarshan effect is negligibly small. I don't believe it has even been observed in nuclear transitions (although it has in atomic transitions). Second, no matter how you define a lifetime in the case of the practically-but-not-theoretically exponential decay, the answer to the OP's question is clearly "yes".

Splitting hairs like this doesn't make the answer to the OP's any clearer.
 
Vanadium 50 said:
First, the Misra and Sudarshan effect is negligibly small. I don't believe it has even been observed in nuclear transitions (although it has in atomic transitions).

Google search for the exact phrase "Misra and Sudarshan effect" or "Misra-Sudarshan effect" gave nothing but your post. If, however, you mean "Quantum Zeno effect", this is not exactly what I had in mind. Khalfin's results on decay nonexponentiality (which precede Misra-Sudarshan work by 10-20 years) are applicable both to very short times, which may be relevant to the Quantum Zeno effect, and to very long times, which does not seem relevant to QZE. Furthermore, I said myself that "It is very difficult to observe the deviations from the exponential law though", so what's your point?

Vanadium 50 said:
Second, no matter how you define a lifetime in the case of the practically-but-not-theoretically exponential decay, the answer to the OP's question is clearly "yes".

If you mean that for a "practically exponential decay" half-life "practically" does not change with time, this sounds pretty much like a tautology. My point, however, was that theoretically there is no such thing as precisely exponential decay.

Vanadium 50 said:
Splitting hairs like this doesn't make the answer to the OP's any clearer.

It makes the answer more precise though. The OP's question was "Shouldn't the half life itself change over time ?", and the correct answer is "Yes, it should." Furthermore, OP used the following interesting argument: "since the normal pdf is the one with the most entropy of information and radioactive decay increases the entropy of the material, I'm concluding the pdf itself should bias after a while." This is a purely theoretical argument, so if you answer "No, half life should not change over time" based on practical considerations, such an answer may be not just imprecise, but also confusing and misleading.

Anyway, you could accuse me of hair-splitting (although I said myself that decay nonexponentiality is very difficult to observe), but not of irrelevancy.
 
Thanks for the replies. That was very informative.
Now a related question:
With a large sample, across a horizon, I think the decay pdf would change dramatically, so the exponential law should fail outside the horizon, but not inside, i.e. the half life would take on different values across the horizon.
Is that reasonable ?
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
4K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
4K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
1K
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K