Random Variable Measurability w.r.t. Sigma Fields

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the measurability of random variables with respect to sigma fields, as presented in a probability problem from Billingsley's text. Participants explore the implications of measurability in various contexts, including trivial sigma fields and conditions under which a random variable is constant.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks clarification on the relationship between a random variable X and the sigma field J, proposing that X is measurable with respect to J if and only if sigma(X) is a subset of J.
  • Another participant notes that sigma(X) is defined as the smallest sigma field for which X is measurable, suggesting that this definition aids in proving the subset relationship.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of X being measurable with respect to the trivial sigma field, leading to the conclusion that X must be constant if it is measurable with respect to J being the trivial sigma field.
  • Participants explore the conditions under which the set {X=c} is measurable, noting that it must either be the empty set or the entire space, which leads to the conclusion that if it is the entire space, then X is constant.
  • One participant expresses confusion about the implications of the measurability conditions, while others provide hints and guidance to clarify the reasoning process.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the definitions and implications of measurability in the context of sigma fields, but there is some uncertainty and confusion regarding specific parts of the problem, particularly parts b and c.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express difficulty in understanding the implications of measurability under different sigma fields, particularly the trivial sigma field, and how this relates to the constancy of the random variable.

empyreandance
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Hello everyone,

I'm having a little trouble with a probability problem with three parts; I think I'm having trouble wrapping my head around just what's going on here. If anyone could give me a starting point, I'd appreciate it.

Here's the problem (Billingsley 5.1) (X a random variable)

a. Show that X is measurable w.r.t. the sigma field J iff sigma(X) is a subset of J. Show that X is a measurable w.r.t. sigma(Y) iff sigma(x) is a subset of sigma(Y)

b. Show that if J = {empty set, omega}, then X is measurable w.r.t. J iff X is constant.

c. Suppose that P(A) is 0 or 1 for every A in J. This holds, for example, if J is the tail field of an independent sequence, or if J consists of the countable and cocountable sets on the unit interval with Lebesgue measure. Show that if X is measurable w.r.t. J, then P[X=c] = 1 for some constant c.

Thanks for any and all help!

Best regards
 
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Did you see topology already?? The techniques used here ressembles the techniques in topology.

Anyway, for (a), you need to prove that if X is measurable, then \sigma(X) is a subset of J.

So, firstly, how is \sigma(X) defined?
 
Hello,

I thought there might be some sort of topological argument, but the book is very analysis-oriented, so I was trying to stick to that line of thinking. σ(X) is defined as the smallest sigma field that X is measurable w.r.t., i.e. the intersection of all such fields.
 
empyreandance said:
Hello,

I thought there might be some sort of topological argument, but the book is very analysis-oriented, so I was trying to stick to that line of thinking. σ(X) is defined as the smallest sigma field that X is measurable w.r.t., i.e. the intersection of all such fields.

OK, so \sigma(X) is the smallest sigma field such that X is measurable. Doesn't that make it easy to show that \sigma(X)\subseteq J?? X is measurable w.r.t. J after all...
 
Ah yes, of course it does. I'm not sure why I missed that. Thanks. As for the other parts, any suggestions?
 
For the reverse, you know that \sigma(X)\subseteq Jand that \sigma(X) makes X measurable. You need to show that J makes X measurable. So by going to a finer sigma field, you preserve measurability. That shouldn't be too difficult?
 
No, it's not bad at all. It's more parts b and c that I remain a bit lost on
 
OK take X to be measurable wrt the trivial sigma field. We wish to prove that X is constant.

What is \{X=c\} for each c in \mathbb{R}?? A measurable set w.r.t. the trivial sigma field,right?? What can you deduce?
 
Yes, definitely measurable. Oh! If X is not constant, then the inverse image maps to a set strictly smaller than the space, or am I completely confused now? My apologies, for some reason I'm having particular difficulty on this one.
 
  • #10
OK, \{X=c\} is a measurable set wrt to the trivial sigma-algebra. But the trivial sigma-algebra only has two measurable sets: \emptyset and \Omega.

So what are the only possibilities for \{X=c\}??
 
  • #11
Ah, either the empty set or the entire space. So, for {X=C} to be measurable it either has to be the empty set or omega.
 
  • #12
empyreandance said:
Ah, either the empty set or the entire space. So, for {X=C} to be measurable it either has to be the empty set or omega.

Yes! And what does it mean that \{X=c\}=\Omega??
 
  • #13
It means the set of x in omega s.t. X(x) = c is the entire space, correct?
 
  • #14
empyreandance said:
It means the set of x in omega s.t. X(x) = c is the entire space, correct?

So, if \{X=c\}=\Omega, then the function is constant, right??

What you have proven is that either \{X=c\} is empty or is omega. If there is a c such that \{X=c\}, then you're done.

Now prove that there must exist such a c. Hint: what is \{X\in \mathbb{R}\}??
 
  • #15
Yes, the function is assuredly constant. X in R is the set of omega such that X(w) is in R. However, X is a random variable, so it maps from the the space to R. So, I feel the connections starting to coalesce in my head... I think now, Since J is the empty set or the whole space and we've shown that either {X=c} is empty or is omega, then since X in R is the set of omega such that X(w) is in R, which should be the entire space. Then, since if a X(y) = d, whereas X(x) = c elsewhere, both these sets would map back to sets strictly smaller than the space, but strictly larger than the empty set by the way they're defined, yes?
 
  • #16
Seems alright!
 
  • #17
Awesome, I can't thank you enough for both your help and patience!
 

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