Rate of conduction heat transfer with different hot-side and cold-side areas

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the rate of conduction heat transfer when the areas of the hot side and cold side differ. Participants explore the implications of varying cross-sectional areas on thermal conductivity and heat transfer calculations, with a focus on theoretical and mathematical considerations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how to determine the rate of conduction heat transfer (Q) when the hot and cold side areas are not the same.
  • Another participant emphasizes that thermal conductivity is a material property and does not depend on geometry, suggesting that conductance or resistance should be considered instead.
  • It is proposed that the heat flux changes with the cross-sectional area, which affects the calculations of heat transfer.
  • Some participants mention the need for assumptions of uniformity and directionality in heat flow to make meaningful calculations regarding resistance across a cross-section.
  • One participant suggests a mathematical approach involving the integration of local cross-sectional area to calculate the rate of heat flow when the area changes gradually.
  • Another participant notes that if the geometry does not vary gradually, solving the 2D or 3D heat conduction equation may be necessary.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of varying cross-sectional areas on heat transfer calculations. While some agree on the importance of considering conductance or resistance, others highlight the need for specific assumptions in modeling heat flow. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to take in these scenarios.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the limitations of their assumptions, particularly regarding uniformity and directionality of heat flow, which may affect the validity of their calculations. There is also mention of the complexity introduced by non-uniform geometries.

emtae55
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When we measure 'the rate of conduction heat transfer'=Q , we assume that the hot side and the cold side's area are same. But if the both side's area is different to each other, how can i know the rate of conduction heat transfer?
like below figure.
1599003995251.png

1599004185709.png

Would you like to help me?? Thanks.
 
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emtae55 said:
Summary:: When we measure a thermal conductivity, we assume that the hot side and the cold side's area are same. But if the both side's area is different to each other, how can i know the thermal conductivity?

When we measure a thermal conductivity, we assume that the hot side and the cold side's area are same. But if the both side's area is different to each other, how can i know the thermal conductivity?
Would you like to help me?? Thanks.
Please provide a diagram illustrating the kind of geometric arrangement you are referring to.
 
emtae55 said:
Summary:: When we measure a thermal conductivity, we assume that the hot side and the cold side's area are same. But if the both side's area is different to each other, how can i know the thermal conductivity?
...
Thermal conductivity remains the same for same material.
In your case, what changes is the heat flux, which dependds on cross section or area.

Please, see:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_flux
 
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Chestermiller said:
Please provide a diagram illustrating the kind of geometric arrangement you are referring to.
I edited it.
 
As said, conductivity is a property of the material, not iys geometry.
So you prob. meant conductance or resistance.
Just calculate the reisitance of a differential cross-sectional volume & integrate.
 
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rude man said:
As said, conductivity is a property of the material, not iys geometry.
So you prob. meant conductance or resistance.
Just calculate the reisitance of a differential cross-sectional volume & integrate.
@Chestermiller is the subject matter expert here, but it seems to me that you would need to make some assumptions of uniformity and directionality for the heat flow before a scalar figure for resistance across a cross-section becomes meaningful.

For a reasonably long and thin object, such assumptions may be reasonable, but it is good to be aware that one is making them.
 
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jbriggs444 said:
@Chestermiller is the subject matter expert here, but it seems to me that you would need to make some assumptions of uniformity and directionality for the heat flow before a scalar figure for resistance across a cross-section becomes meaningful.

For a reasonably long and thin object, such assumptions may be reasonable, but it is good to be aware that one is making them.
For the figure the OP provided, what i suggested would be appropriate.

Of course, you can be infInitely picky, such as heat lost/gained along the figure - but this is supposed to be introductory physIcs. Sturm-Liouville is not yet encountered, for example.
 
Oh, I made a mistake. What i meant was 'not' a conductivity but 'the rate of conduction heat transfer'
Sorry :(
I'll edit my subject.
 
I agree with @jbriggs444. If the cross sectional area were changing very gradually (like toward the right side of the figure, but not like toward the left side of the figure in post #1), you could write $$Q=kA(x)\frac{dT}{dx}$$where Q is the rate of heat flow (independent of x) and A(x) is the local cross sectional area. This would integrate to $$Q=k\frac{\Delta T}{\int_0^L{\frac{dx}{A(x)}}}$$

If the geometry does not vary gradually, one would have to solve the 2D or 3D heat conduction equation, a partial differential equation.
 
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