Rational Functions: Max Roots & Poles

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter quasar987
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Functions
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of rational functions, specifically focusing on the maximum number of roots and poles. Participants explore the definitions and implications of counting roots and poles, including considerations of multiplicity and behavior at infinity.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a rational function defined by two polynomials and questions why it has exactly max{n, d} roots and poles, suggesting alternative counts based on the degrees of the polynomials.
  • Another participant emphasizes the importance of counting roots and poles with multiplicity, providing an example with z^2 having two zeros at z=0.
  • There is a reminder that the assumption z_i ≠ ζ_j is necessary, although it is noted that this does not address the initial confusion.
  • Further discussion highlights the need to consider multiplicity at infinity, with one participant asserting that roots and poles at infinity should be counted similarly to those in \mathbb{C}.
  • A participant expresses uncertainty about how to determine the multiplicity at infinity, given their understanding of multiplicities for roots and poles in \mathbb{C}.
  • Another participant suggests that the multiplicity at infinity can be inferred from the asymptotic behavior of the function, relating it to the order of the polynomial.
  • There is a request for clarification on the formal definition of multiplicity at infinity, with one participant admitting a lack of recall on the formal definition but indicating a general understanding of the concept.
  • One participant mentions that the order of the pole/zero at infinity is typically defined in terms of the behavior of the function f(1/z) at zero.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on how to count roots and poles, particularly at infinity. There is no consensus on the formal definition of multiplicity at infinity, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these definitions.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the lack of a clear definition for multiplicity at infinity as referenced by participants, and the discussion relies on various interpretations of asymptotic behavior and polynomial characteristics.

quasar987
Science Advisor
Homework Helper
Gold Member
Messages
4,796
Reaction score
32
Consider [itex]p_n(z)[/itex] and [itex]q_d(z)[/itex] two polynomials over [itex]\mathbb{C}[/tex], which can be factorized like so:<br /> <br /> [tex]p_n(z) = a_n (z-z_1)^{n_1}...(z-z_{k})^{n_k}[/tex]<br /> [tex]q_d(z) = b_d(z-\zeta_1)^{d_1}...(z-\zeta_{m})^{d_m}[/tex]<br /> <br /> ([itex]\sum^k n_i =n \ \ \ \sum^m d_i =d[/itex])<br /> <br /> and the rationnal function [itex]R: \mathbb{C}\cup \{\infty\} \rightarrow \mathbb{C}\cup \{\infty\}[/itex] defined by<br /> <br /> [tex]R(z) = \frac{p_n(z)}{q_d(z)}[/tex] if [tex]z \neq \zeta_i, \infty[/tex]<br /> <br /> [tex]R(\zeta_i) = \infty[/tex]<br /> <br /> [tex]R(\infty) = \left\{ \begin{array}{rcl}<br /> \infty & \mbox{if}<br /> & n>d \\ \frac{a_n}{b_n} & \mbox{if} & n=d \\<br /> 0 & \mbox{if} & n<d<br /> \end{array}\right[/tex]<br /> <br /> I fail to see why R(z) has exactly [itex]max\{n,d\}[/itex] roots and poles. It seems to me the number of roots is equal to k or k+1 in the case of n<d and the number of poles is m or m+1 in the case of n>d.[/itex]
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
They are counting with multiplicity, e.g. z^2 has 2 zeros at z=0.
 
Don't forget that you are assuming that [itex]z_i \neq \zeta_j[/itex]. (But that has nothing to do with your confusion)
 
Last edited:
shmoe said:
They are counting with multiplicity, e.g. z^2 has 2 zeros at z=0.

I also investigated that possibility. But even so, counting with multiplicity, R has n or n+1 roots and d or d+1 poles.
 
You have to count multiplicity at infinity too.
 
What does that mean?
 
Your function may have a multiple root/pole at infinity, just like it may have a multiple root/pole at any other number. You have to count the multiplicity of the root/pole at infinity, just like you have to count the multiplicity of the roots/poles at all the other numbers.
 
But for the roots/poles in [itex]\mathbb{C}[/itex], I know what their order of multiplicity are by looking at the number [itex]n_i/d_i[/itex] respectively. How do I know what the multiplicity is at infinity?!
 
I don't know how your book defines the multiplicity of a root/pole at infinity. What does its definition say?
 
  • #10
It is not defined. I am using the definition from a linear algebra book my Lay, which says that the order of multiplicity of an eigenvalue [itex]a[/itex] is the power of [itex](\lambda-a)[/itex] in the caracteristic polynomial.
 
  • #11
Well, as you could guess from the answer, a function that looks asymptotically like x^k has a pole of order k at infinity, and similarly for one that looks like x^-k.
 
  • #12
Is that a formal definition?
 
  • #13
I don't remember what the formal definition is. I just remember that that's what you want to get out of it.
 
  • #14
Thanks Hurky, but it seems unlike our teacher to just throw stuff at us that we can't prove for ourself very easily. I'll ask him for more details.
 
  • #15
The order of the pole/zero at infinity of [tex]f(z)[/tex] is usually defined to be the order of the pole/zero of [tex]f\left(\frac{1}{z}\right)[/tex] at zero.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
1K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K