Reaction force at the top of a rollercoaster loop

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of reaction forces in the context of a rollercoaster loop, specifically addressing the forces acting on the cart as it navigates the loop. Participants explore the relationship between centripetal force, gravitational force, and the reaction force from the track, while questioning the nature and origin of these forces.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that in a rollercoaster loop, the centripetal force is a combination of the cart's weight and the reaction force from the track, except in cases where the weight alone suffices.
  • Another participant suggests that the reaction force is part of the acceleration, indicating that gravity contributes to the overall force required for circular motion.
  • A participant questions the origin of the force exerted by the cart on the rails, emphasizing that the cart's velocity is perpendicular to the rails and expressing confusion about the absence of an outward centrifugal force.
  • One reply clarifies that the rails apply a force on the cart to change its direction, as the cart tends to move in a straight line due to inertia.
  • Another participant challenges the notion of a cause-effect relationship between action and reaction forces, arguing that they act simultaneously and are not hierarchical in nature.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of reaction forces and their origins, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about the forces involved and their interactions remain unaddressed, and the discussion does not resolve the complexities of the forces acting on the cart in the loop.

dainckp
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I understand that in a rollercoaster loop, two forces combine to make the centripetal force required to keep the cart moving in a circular path - the cart's weight, and the reaction force of the track against the cart (except in the special case where the cart's weight alone is sufficient for the centripetal force)

What I don't understand is, why is there a reaction force at all? If the rails are pushing back on the cart, by Newton's Third Law the cart must be in the first place exerting an equal and opposite force on the rails, but I can't see where such a force would come from. The cart's velocity is perpendicular to the rail, and the acceleration is directed towards the centre of the loop, and I was taught there is no such thing as an outward centrifugal force, so why does the cart push on the rails in the first place?

A reaction force yes, but a reaction to what?
 
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The force is from (or, rather, causes) part of the acceleration: f=ma. Gravity causes the rest.
 
If the rails are pushing back on the cart, by Newton's Third Law the cart must be in the first place exerting an equal and opposite force on the rails, but I can't see where such a force would come from.

The cart wants to go in a straight line but the rails force the cart to move in a curve. eg The rails apply a force on the cart.
 
dainckp said:
If the rails are pushing back on the cart, by Newton's Third Law the cart must be in the first place...
No, not "in the first place". The two equal and opposite forces act simultaneously, and are on the same footing. There is no cause-effect relationship between them, contrary to what the unfortunate naming "action & reaction" suggests.
 

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