Relating SHM and Rotational Motion

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves a spring attached to a wheel, exploring the relationship between simple harmonic motion (SHM) and rotational motion. The wheel is released from rest after being stretched by the spring, and the discussion focuses on the forces acting on the wheel, including friction, spring force, and gravitational force, as well as the resulting accelerations and torques.

Discussion Character

  • Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the forces acting on the wheel, including the spring force, weight, friction, and normal force. There is uncertainty about the direction of the friction force and its role in torque. Some participants question the assumption of no external torque due to the spring force passing through the axle.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively exploring the relationships between forces and torques, with some guidance provided on applying Newton's laws and the conditions for rolling without slipping. Multiple interpretations of the problem are being examined, particularly regarding the role of friction in both the torque and force equations.

Contextual Notes

There is an ongoing discussion about the correct incorporation of friction into the equations governing the system, as well as the implications of rolling motion on the forces involved. Participants are navigating the complexities of relating linear and angular quantities in the context of the problem.

laurenm02
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Homework Statement


A spring of stiffness k is attached to a wall and to the axle of a wheel of mass m, radius R, and moment of inertia I = βmR^2 about its frictionless axle. The spring is stretched a distance A and the wheel is released from rest. Assume the wheel rolls without slipping.

At some moment, the horizontal component of the spring force on the wheel is Fx, fid the magnitude and direction of:

The friction force
The acceleration of the wheel's center of mass
The angular acceleration of the wheel about its CM

Homework Equations


F = -kx
τ = Iα
E = (1/2)kx^2

The Attempt at a Solution


I'm really not even sure how to start this problem and how to set it up. I've always struggled with rotational motion intuitively, so I'm having trouble relating it to SHM.
 
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Draw a picture. What forces and torque act on the wheel?

What is the condition for rolling?
 
For the forces, I have the force from the spring starting from the center of the wheel and extending horizontal.
I have the weight of the wheel starting from the center of the wheel and extending downward.
I have the force of friction at the point of contact between the wheel and the floor (but which direction would the force extend since the wheel changes direction with the spring's oscillations?
I have the normal force from the floor and extending upwards.

Because the force of the spring passes through the axle of the wheel, I figured that there was no external torque. Is this a correct assumption?
 
laurenm02 said:
For the forces, I have the force from the spring starting from the center of the wheel and extending horizontal.
I have the weight of the wheel starting from the center of the wheel and extending downward.
I have the force of friction at the point of contact between the wheel and the floor (but which direction would the force extend since the wheel changes direction with the spring's oscillations?
The friction opposes the realtive motion of the surfaces in contact.

laurenm02 said:
I have the normal force from the floor and extending upwards.

Because the force of the spring passes through the axle of the wheel, I figured that there was no external torque. Is this a correct assumption?
And what about the force of friction?
 
ehild said:
The friction opposes the realtive motion of the surfaces in contact.And what about the force of friction?

Ahh, right, I forgot about the friction in torque.

So Στ = F(friction) = Iα
F(friction) = βmR^2 * α

But how do I connect that back to the Fx the question is asking for?
 
laurenm02 said:
The acceleration of the wheel's center of mass
At the point where force by spring is kx.
the energy stored in the spring is equal to the sum of rotational energy and KE of the wheel(CM)... get an equation first.
 
he torque.
laurenm02 said:
Ahh, right, I forgot about the friction in torque.

So Στ = F(friction) = Iα
F(friction) = βmR^2 * α

But how do I connect that back to the Fx the question is asking for?
Iα is equal to the torque, not to the force. What is the torque of the friction?

You have to apply the condition of rolling. What is it?
 
Suraj M said:
At the point where force by spring is kx.
the energy stored in the spring is equal to the sum of rotational energy and KE of the wheel(CM)... get an equation first.
Suraj, you know, don't you, that it is wrong.
 
ehild said:
he torque.

Iα is equal to the torque, not to the force. What is the torque of the friction?

You have to apply the condition of rolling. What is it?

Is it F(friction)*R = βmR^2 * α
So F(friction) = BmRα?

Then what?
 
  • #10
yeah, i realized when you guys were talking about friction. I didn't read that part of that question. Sorry.. the floors yours. :)
 
  • #11
laurenm02 said:
Is it F(friction)*R = βmR^2 * α
So F(friction) = BmRα?

Then what?
What is the condition for rolling?
 
  • #12
ehild said:
What is the condition for rolling?
Do you mean rolling without slipping? Where VCM = R*ω and aCM = R*α ?
 
  • #13
laurenm02 said:
Do you mean rolling without slipping? Where VCM = R*ω and aCM = R*α ?
Yes, that is.

Write up the equation for the acceleration of the CM and that for the angular acceleration, then use the relation aCM = R*α
 
  • #14
So aCM = -kx/m, and because x = A in this problem, then my answer for the wheel's center of mass acceleration is simply aCM = -kA/m

And because aCM = R*α, then the angular acceleration of the wheel α = aCM / R, so α = (-kA)/(mR)

And substituting this relationship into the Ffr = βmRα equation, then Ffr = βm*aCM, which simplified is Ffr = -βkA?

Are these correct?
 
  • #15
laurenm02 said:
So aCM = -kx/m, and because x = A in this problem, then my answer for the wheel's center of mass acceleration is simply aCM = -kA/m

No, you forgot the friction. And the wheel moves, so x is not A always.
 
  • #16
Where would I incorporate the friction?
 
  • #17
laurenm02 said:
Where would I incorporate the friction?
Among the forces. Newton's second law. The sum of forces = mass times acceleration.
 
  • #18
ehild said:
Among the forces. Newton's second law. The sum of forces = mass times acceleration.

If the friction affects both the torque equation and the second law equation, how do I incorporate both into my final answer?
 
  • #19
Write both equations and you will see.
 
  • #20
ehild said:
Write both equations and you will see.

so Στ = Ffr * R = I*α
and ΣF = Fx - Ffr = macm
solving for acm = (Fx - Ffr) / m

and plugging this into the torque equation Ffr = βmacm = β(Fx - Ffr)

so Ffr = (βFx)/(1 + β)

?
 
  • #21
laurenm02 said:
so Στ = Ffr * R = I*α
and ΣF = Fx - Ffr = macm
solving for acm = (Fx - Ffr) / m

and plugging this into the torque equation Ffr = βmacm = β(Fx - Ffr)

so Ffr = (βFx)/(1 + β)

?
It looks all right now.
 

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