Relative humidity at negative temperature

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of relative humidity at temperatures below zero degrees Celsius, particularly in relation to the condensation of water and the behavior of water vapor in cold air. Participants explore theoretical implications and definitions related to humidity in sub-zero conditions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the relative humidity of a chamber at temperatures below zero degrees Celsius, suggesting uncertainty about whether it could be negative.
  • Another participant clarifies that Celsius is a relative temperature scale and that negative values do not imply a lack of water vapor, as air can still hold some water vapor even at sub-zero temperatures.
  • A third participant explains the concept of vapor pressure and equilibrium in liquid-gas and solid-gas systems, stating that relative humidity is defined as the ratio of the amount of vapor present to the maximum it can hold at a given temperature.
  • One participant corrects an earlier claim about water condensing at zero degrees Celsius, noting that water can exist in liquid form at temperatures as low as -40 degrees Celsius due to supercooling, and emphasizes that relative humidity cannot be negative.
  • Another participant provides an example from Vostok, Antarctica, where the air temperature is -58 degrees Celsius and the dew point is -62 degrees Celsius, resulting in a relative humidity of 42%.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of negative temperatures for relative humidity, with some clarifying definitions while others raise questions about the concept itself. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the interpretation of relative humidity in extreme cold conditions.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various definitions and measures of humidity, including relative humidity, absolute humidity, and dew point temperature, highlighting the complexity of the topic and the need for precise definitions in discussions of humidity at low temperatures.

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as we know at zero degree temp. water condense to form ice. so what will be the relative humidity of a chamber at a temperature below zero degree temp.?
will it be nagative or what?
 
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Celsius is a relative temperature scale and the negative doesn't have any deeper meaning other than it was decided to use 0 as the freezing temp of water because it is convenient. Air below 0C can still hold some water vapor, but only a little.
 
For a liquid-gas system, the amount of vapor present is called the vapor pressure. If the system is in equilibrium, any more vapor would cause liquid to condense, any less would cause liquid to evaporate. We then say the air is saturated. Likewise for a solid-gas system.

Relative humidity is defined as the amount of vapor in the air compared to the maximum, so if the system is in equilibrium, the relative humidity is one hundred percent.
 
“as we know at zero degree temp. water condense to form ice.”

Water melts at zero degrees C; however, it can be in a liquid form at temperatures as low as –40 degrees. See super cooling:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercooling

As for relative humidity: it is defined as the ratio of the partial pressure of water vapor (in a gaseous mixture of air and water vapor) to the saturated vapor pressure of water at a given temperature. In other words, relative humidity is the amount of water vapor in the air at a specific temperature compared to the maximum water vapor that the air is able to hold without it condensing, In other words it is a percentage so it can’t be negetive, but the dew point temperature can be.

There are other measures of moisture like absolute humidity and dew point temperature.

As I type this, the air temperature in Vostok Antarctic is –58C and the dew point temperature is –62C which gives a RH of 42%.

http://www.wunderground.com/global/stations/89606.html?MR=1
 
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