Relative permittivity of vacuum aluminum interface?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relative permittivity of the vacuum-aluminum interface, particularly in the context of electromagnetic wave interactions with aluminum as a conductor. Participants explore theoretical aspects, practical implications, and specific applications related to this topic.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Experimental/applied

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that aluminum, being a conductor, reflects and absorbs electromagnetic waves, providing a formula for the reflection coefficient.
  • Another participant discusses the difficulty in determining the dielectric constant for metals, suggesting that for practical purposes, the large conductivity overshadows the dielectric properties.
  • A participant challenges the assertion that the dielectric constant is irrelevant, emphasizing the importance of frequency-dependent conductivity and its implications in optics.
  • One participant mentions their interest in the topic is related to calculations for optical transition radiation (OTR) used in measuring charged particle beam profiles in vacuum, identifying themselves as an accelerator physicist.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relevance of the dielectric constant in the context of aluminum's conductivity. There is no consensus on whether the dielectric constant can be disregarded due to high conductivity, indicating an unresolved debate.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of the dielectric function in metals, particularly in the optical region, and the dependence of conductivity on frequency. There are references to specific equations and literature that may not be universally agreed upon.

Who May Find This Useful

Individuals interested in electromagnetic theory, materials science, optics, and accelerator physics may find this discussion relevant.

omete
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funny but I could not reach the info from net quickly.
 
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Aluminum is a conductor, so the EM wave is attenuated and absorbed. A good conductor reflects the incident wave. the reflection coefficient R is approximately
R = 1 -2 sqrt(2 w e0/sigma)
where w = frequency (radians/sec)
e0 permittivity of free space
sigma = conductivity of metal.
See
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=162915
 
The dielectric constant for a metal is usually hard to find (I don't know if it really is greater than unity) but for most purposes it is irrelevant due to the large conductivity of the metal that will dominate the reflection and transmission properties. Wikipedia gives the conductivity to be 37.8e6 mhos/m (interestingly enough this does not match the given resistivity, oh Wikipedia!). So you can model the permittivity of alumin(i)um simply as:

\epsilon = \epsilon_0+i\frac{\sigma}{\omega\epsilon_0}
where \sigma, the conductivity, is 37.8e6 S/m.
 
thank you very much...
 
holy crap, you guys are awesome
 
Born2bwire,
I don't quite understand your comment that the dielectric constant is irrelevant due to the large conductivity.
In optics one usually choses the polarization P=\int dt j(t) or, in Fourier space, P(\omega)=-j(\omega)/{i \omega}, where j is the induced current in the material (see, e.g. Landau Lifshetz, electrodynamics of continuous media).
Hence the equation you write down is an exact relationship and not just an approximation for any material. However, the conductivity depends generally on frequency and can be complex. In the optical region in metals, it is usually not justified to replace the conductivity by its static value.
The dielectric function of metals is usually inferred from reflectivity measurements and its values in the optical region can be found e.g. in Landolt/Boernstein.
 
OK. It is quite a while then, but I come across this discussion. Then I wanted to add the reason why I need this info, could be of interest to you. It is related to some calculations for OTR (optical transition radiation). You use it to measure the profile of your charged particle beam traveling in vacuum. Yes, I am an accelerator physicist :)
 

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