Relativistic Kinetic or Classical for Velocity Selector Design?

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around designing a velocity selector for electrons with a specified kinetic energy of 5x10^4 eV and an electric field of 2x10^5 V/m. Participants are exploring whether to use classical or relativistic physics to determine the necessary magnetic field.

Discussion Character

  • Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are attempting to calculate the velocity of electrons based on kinetic energy and electric field, using both classical and relativistic equations. There are questions about the accuracy of the classical approach and concerns about potential algebraic errors in the relativistic calculations.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided insights into the relationship between kinetic energy and velocity, suggesting that the relativistic formula is more general. There is recognition of algebraic mistakes and differing interpretations of the equations involved, but no consensus has been reached on the best approach.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating the complexities of classical versus relativistic physics in the context of a specific homework problem, with an emphasis on the implications of using different formulas for calculating velocity and magnetic field.

MostlyHarmless
Messages
344
Reaction score
15

Homework Statement


Suppose you want to make a velocity selector that allows undeflected passage for electrons whose kinetic energy is ##5x10^4eV##. The electric field available to you ##2x10^5V/m##. What magnetic field will be needed?

Homework Equations


##u=\frac{E}{B}##
u is velocity, E is the electric field, B is the magnetic field.

The Attempt at a Solution


So I'm trying to using the Kinetic Energy to solve for u, and then solve for B.

At first I tried using the classical equation for kinetic energy, which gave me ~.44c. But this value for u, would make the Classical formula not very accurate.

So I tried the relativist formula: ##E_{kin}=mc^2(\gamma-1)## and worked my way down to ##u = c\sqrt{1-\frac{1}{\frac{E^2}{(mc^2)^2)}+1}}##

In this case, I end up with ~.01c which is not a relativistic speed. So my question is, which should I use? And obviously I'm doing something wrong, any obvious mistakes with that last equation? Is there an easier way to deduce the magnetic field given the kinetic energy and electric field?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
MostlyHarmless said:
and worked my way down to ##u = c\sqrt{1-\frac{1}{\frac{E^2}{(mc^2)^2)}+1}}##

I think it's just an algebra error. I got a very slightly different formula at the end :smile:
 
First, I had to understand what a velocity selector is.
Here is a clear picture from Wikipedia:

300px-Velocity_selector.svg.png


Indeed, the solution boils down to calculating the velocity of a beam of electron at the energy of 5.104eV.
The energy is related to the speed by this formula:

5cbcf34148e7892f9170501e071cbcfc.png


Solving, you should find v/c = 0.412687

v²/c² = (1 - 1 / (Ek/mc² + 1)²)

The classical formula is not so far from the relativistic result.
Anyway, the relativistic formula is more general and is always applicable.
The classical formula is an approximation.
 
Last edited:
I think in the frustration I broke an algebra rule, and did: ((E/mc^2)+1)=(E/mc2)^2+1^2

>.<
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
1K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
5K
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 55 ·
2
Replies
55
Views
6K
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
1K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
4K