Relativistic Sphere: Length Contraction & Volume

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    Relativistic Sphere
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the effects of relativistic motion on the shape and volume of a theoretical sphere, particularly focusing on length contraction and its implications for observers in different reference frames. The conversation touches on theoretical concepts, mathematical reasoning, and the visualization of relativistic objects.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that a sphere at rest will undergo length contraction when it moves, resulting in a change to an ellipsoidal shape and a decrease in volume from the perspective of a stationary observer.
  • Others argue that the volume of the sphere is frame-dependent, with the volume appearing lower in the moving reference frame.
  • A participant mentions the concept of Terrell rotation, suggesting that despite the contraction, the sphere may still appear spherical due to the finite speed of light affecting the observer's perception.
  • There is a discussion about the relationship between the ellipsoid's volume and its radius, with a request for clarification on how the radii change with velocity.
  • Some participants clarify that the radius in the direction of motion scales with the Lorentz factor (##\gamma##), while the radii in the perpendicular directions remain unchanged.
  • There is a correction regarding the terminology used for scaling, with a distinction made between gamma (##\gamma##) and lambda (##\lambda##) in the context of length contraction.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the concept of length contraction affecting the sphere's shape and volume, but there are multiple competing views regarding the implications of this contraction and how it is perceived by observers in different frames. The discussion remains unresolved in terms of the exact relationship between the ellipsoid's volume and its radii.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on definitions of volume and radius in different reference frames, as well as unresolved mathematical steps regarding the exact scaling of dimensions.

Einstein's Cat
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Say there is a theoretical sphere of radius r, at rest, then if it's velocity changes then I assume that the radius is subject to length contraction and thus it's volume would decrease from a stationary observer. Is this assumption true?
 
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This might answer it:

http://www.spacetimetravel.org/fussball/fussball.html

The sphere becomes an ellipsoid but due to the finite speed of light and the fact that the light travels different distances to reach your eye you will still see a sphere.

A similar case occurs with a relativistic cube where the cube contracts relative to the stationary observer but the observer actually sees a cube rotated slight toward him/her so that you see the side and the back together because light from the fornt edge gets to your eyes sooner than light from the back edge.

http://www.spacetimetravel.org/tompkins/node1.html

Look up Terrell rotation for more details:

http://www.math.ubc.ca/~cass/courses/m309-01a/cook/terrell1.html
 
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Einstein's Cat said:
Say there is a theoretical sphere of radius r, at rest, then if it's velocity changes then I assume that the radius is subject to length contraction and thus it's volume would decrease from a stationary observer. Is this assumption true?

It's easier if you consider a sphere at rest in it's own reference frame, and asks what happens if you ask what it's shape is in some frame moving relative to the sphere's rest frame. That way you don't have to worry about the notion of "rigidity".

The sphere when seen from a moving frame does indeed Lorentz contract in one direction, assuming the shape of an ellipsoid. The volume of the sphere in the moving reference frame is lower, volume is therefore a frame-dependent quantity like length is.
 
pervect said:
It's easier if you consider a sphere at rest in it's own reference frame, and asks what happens if you ask what it's shape is in some frame moving relative to the sphere's rest frame. That way you don't have to worry about the notion of "rigidity".

The sphere when seen from a moving frame does indeed Lorentz contract in one direction, assuming the shape of an ellipsoid. The volume of the sphere in the moving reference frame is lower, volume is therefore a frame-dependent quantity like length is.
What is the relationship between the volume of the ellipsoid and its radius?
 
The ones in the y and z direction don't change. The one in the x direction scales as ##\gamma##.
 
Ibix said:
the x direction scales as ##\gamma##.
I see because length contraction is in the direction of one dimensional motion. I apologise but what does the quote above mean?
 
What you said. Although I should have said ##1/\gamma##. At speed v the length is ##\sqrt {1-v^2/c^2}## times its rest length.
 
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  • #10
Ibix said:
x direction scales as ##\gamma##.
Sorry to go on but when you say scale do you perhaps mean that "x new"
= 1/Lamda * "x rest"?
 
  • #11
Einstein's Cat said:
Sorry to go on but when you say scale do you perhaps mean that "x new"
= 1/Lamda * "x rest"?
That's a gamma (##\gamma##), not a lambda (##\lambda##), but otherwise yes.
 
  • #12
Ibix said:
That's a gamma (##\gamma##), not a lambda (##\lambda##), but otherwise yes.
Thank you very much and I'll go and revise greek letters!
 

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