News Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, 6 YTBN Shot, Killed In Tuscon AZ

[nismaratwork]

Nightmare.

Literally a nightmare!... unreal, detached, distant, inescapable... still afraid, and FLOOOOODED with adrenaline like no other time. I haven't been in that exact situation, but I've been where bullets were moving too quickly for comfort, and it's no fun at all. The best part is thinking you're settled down, only to realize you're just letting the shock fade: then you realize that; damn... that could have been it.

Or you're hit, or dead. I don't know what repeated exposure to serious gunfire is, but I imagine that you adapt or snap...

Really... those people, reasonable or not, must feel like there isn't much that's safe right now, or certain. I hope they find solace however they can.

 

[nismaratwork]

doesn't matter if they're "baptist" or not. they could be the Church of Mephistopheles and retain their tax status.

Cool, but they should probably advertise as such or the IRS gets all antsy.

 

[nismaratwork]

Wow, according to CNN medical expert Sanjay Gupta, who is a neurosurgeon, the Chief of Neurosurgery at Tucson stated that Giffords seemed to open her eyes in response to the activities around her, when Obama visited. Giffords' husband thinks she knows Obama was there, but she doesn't understand why.

When Gupta questioned him about the word "miracle" being tossed around, he smiled and said that her response has been miraculous. Her eyes are starting to track properly, she responds definitively to questions and even gave a thumb's up.

I kept thinking how strange it must be. One minute you're standing at a Safeway, and the next thing you know, you're in a hospital bed with Nancy Pelosi looking at you [Pelosi was there when she first opened her eyes. Obama had just left].

Evo's example involves youth, which is a HUGE factor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemispherectomy

It's a factor here too for this woman, but really a combination of immense luck, incredible first aid, and the presence of a surgeon experienced with penetrating skull injuries of this type. Beyond that, she's climbing the GCS like a monkey on a ladder! I hope Loughner knows that the one person he really wanted dead, that he shot point blank int he head... is alive. His legacy will be others, but especially he'll be the guy who murdered, "that little girl".

 

[Proton Soup]

Cool, but they should probably advertise as such or the IRS gets all antsy.

no, they don't. it's not their business what deity or demon people serve.

 

[WhoWee]

no, they don't. it's not their business what deity or demon people serve.

Not yet anyway - ever seen the movie with Alex Baldwin/Nicole Kidman (he's a doctor and says he's God)? (sorry)

 

[nismaratwork]

no, they don't. it's not their business what deity or demon people serve.

No, but if you're not following your own tenants so that the IRS determines you're not really the religion you claim on your tax forms... yeah... you have to worry.

 

[nismaratwork]

Not yet anyway - ever seen the movie with Alex Baldwin/Nicole Kidman (he's a doctor and says he's God)? (sorry)

What's the difference between god, and a surgeon?

God knows he isn't a surgeon.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

you and Ivan are the legendary pair chasing each other for eternity... I'd be crushed if that was shaken somehow.

Hey, don't bring me into this. Russ still thinks I'm a closet liberal with ulterior motives. I'm usually just deflecting fire.

 

[MathAmateur]

The judge who was killed was a good friend of my neighbor's. Their 11 year old was crying this last Sunday when my daughter (also 11) visited her. I just found out today that a colleague was shot and is just surviving at the University Medical Center. This all has hit our community hard.

On the positive side, President Obama visited yesterday and I got to hear him speak. The energy in the McKale Center was amazing and very healing.

I also continue to heal. My work provided a free counselor with experience in violent trauma and the President of our company wrote me a very kind note and the support of my colleagues have been just wonderful. But the image of nine year old Christina Green bleeding on the ground haunts me. I don't remember any of the other carnage which must have been around around her. Just Christina and the two people doing CPR trying to squeeze the life back into her. It is an image that will haunt me, I suppose, for a long time to come.

 

[Evo]

I also continue to heal. My work provided a free counselor with experience in violent trauma and the President of our company wrote me a very kind note and the support of my colleagues have been just wonderful. But the image of nine year old Christina Green bleeding on the ground haunts me. I don't remember any of the other carnage which must have been around around her. Just Christina and the two people doing CPR trying to squeeze the life back into her. It is an image that will haunt me, I suppose, for a long time to come.

So you were at the Safeway next to Gifford when it happened? Another member was there when it happened but only heard the shots, he wasn't outside next to her. That must have been frightening for you when he started shooting.

 

[Lacy33]

May we hear only good things from now on. Thank you for taking the time to write to us.

 

[MathAmateur]

So you were at the Safeway next to Gifford when it happened? Another member was there when it happened but only heard the shots, he wasn't outside next to her. That must have been frightening for you when he started shooting.

I was that other member. I ran outside to try to help after the shooting. Not that I did any good. It was too shocking.

 

[lisab]

The judge who was killed was a good friend of my neighbor's. Their 11 year old was crying this last Sunday when my daughter (also 11) visited her. I just found out today that a colleague was shot and is just surviving at the University Medical Center. This all has hit our community hard.

On the positive side, President Obama visited yesterday and I got to hear him speak. The energy in the McKale Center was amazing and very healing.

I also continue to heal. My work provided a free counselor with experience in violent trauma and the President of our company wrote me a very kind note and the support of my colleagues have been just wonderful. But the image of nine year old Christina Green bleeding on the ground haunts me. I don't remember any of the other carnage which must have been around around her. Just Christina and the two people doing CPR trying to squeeze the life back into her. It is an image that will haunt me, I suppose, for a long time to come.

Good to hear from you...wow. My thoughts are with you. I'm glad you're seeing a counselor, what you went through could easily become PTSD. Please take care of yourself!

 

[Evo]

I was that other member. I ran outside to try to help after the shooting. Not that I did any good. It was too shocking.

Oh, you are!

I know what you mean, my best friend and I witnessed a murder. We and one man were outside on opposite sides of the road when I heard what I thought was a car backfiring. Then the guy started stumbling and we thought he was really drunk, so we crossed the street and he had fallen down, we started to walk by him when we noticed the pool of blood forming around him. Then a couple walked out of a doorway and the woman started screaming. So I know how surreal it is.

Witnessing a mass murder had to be horrific.

 

[MathAmateur]

Oh, you are!

I know what you mean, my best friend and I witnessed a murder. We and one man were outside on opposite sides of the road when I heard what I thought was a car backfiring. Then the guy started stumbling and we thought he was really drunk, so we crossed the street and he had fallen down, we started to walk by him when we noticed the pool of blood forming around him. Then a couple walked out of a doorway and the woman started screaming. So I know how surreal it is.

Witnessing a mass murder had to be horrific.

Then you understand. It is like a fog.

 

[Evo]

Then you understand. It is like a fog.

Yeah, it's a form of denial. The details come back in retrospect, I saw the shooter hanging out of the rear passenger window of an old Chevy Impala looking car. He had a rifle. But the pieces didn't come together until afterwards, because your mind isn't expecting it.

What I thought was some guy hanging out of the car window pointing a stick and the car backfired.

 

[edward]

The speech was correct. However, I didn't care for the campaign-feel (53 interruptions?) and a large room with a sound stage. I would have preferred a solemn moment at the scene of the crime - this seemed too detached.

Good speech, good words - too crowd-responsive.

There were many solemn moments. There is a memorial in front of Giffords office and in front of the hospital. Each of the churches had memorial services. This was for the people of Tucson.

The event was held in the 14,000 seat Basketball arena at the University of Arizona. There is no sound stage, just good technicians. The entire program was put together in two days.

There were a lot of college students there who didn't really know how to act in such a situation. They were in a building where they had only attended rowdy basketball games.

They eventually got it!

 

[mugaliens]

There were many solemn moments. There is a memorial in front of Giffords office and in front of the hospital. Each of the churches had memorial services. This was for the people of Tucson.

The event was held in the 14,000 seat Basketball arena at the University of Arizona. There is no sound stage, just good technicians. The entire program was put together in two days.

There were a lot of college students there who didn't really know how to act in such a situation. They were in a building where they had only attended rowdy basketball games.

Something that's not been well reported in the news is that six of her staffers died.

I'm willing to bet there were more than a few tears in the arena. I knew none of those who died, but I still shed a few (tears). None of us likes this turn of events.

My heart goes out to those college students. Although I graduated Va Tech decades ago, the tragedy that occurred just a couple of years ago still hit hard.

 

[nismaratwork]

Hey, don't bring me into this. Russ still thinks I'm a closet liberal with ulterior motives. I'm usually just deflecting fire.

CLOSET? I thought you were just... liberal... with... you know, good old fashioned above-board motives. I don't always agree with you of course, but given that obvious deflection "ulterior" seems... really? I thought I had trust issues...


Mathamatuer. I'm glad you were able to get counseling, and I'm sorry that you had to see or be near any of that. Don't force anything; just take your time and don't be surprised if you have some random emotions float around. You'll be OK, you're OK now, and you're alive. I know... being alive isn't always amazing when so many are not, including your neighbor's friend, but you're alive, and you can grieve, recover, and if you wish, honor their memories.

Mugaliens: Cho... he really is shockingly similar to this guy on the surface, in terms of pathology. I was chatting with some colleagues this morning, and while no diagnosis is offered, the delusional structures are painfully similar.

Evo: I'm sorry that you witnessed that.

 

[DanP]

The judge who was killed was a good friend of my neighbor's. Their 11 year old was crying this last Sunday when my daughter (also 11) visited her. I just found out today that a colleague was shot and is just surviving at the University Medical Center. This all has hit our community hard.

On the positive side, President Obama visited yesterday and I got to hear him speak. The energy in the McKale Center was amazing and very healing.

I also continue to heal. My work provided a free counselor with experience in violent trauma and the President of our company wrote me a very kind note and the support of my colleagues have been just wonderful. But the image of nine year old Christina Green bleeding on the ground haunts me. I don't remember any of the other carnage which must have been around around her. Just Christina and the two people doing CPR trying to squeeze the life back into her. It is an image that will haunt me, I suppose, for a long time to come.

Ppl bleed to death on other areas of this world as we speak. Some are maimed by anti-personal mines, some are killed by random terrorist attacks, some perish due to famine,
thousands are killed in violent assaults. Some are shoot by cops, sometimes with no very good reasons reasons, a case was discussed not so long ago here.

It;s interesting psychologically that we seem largely unaffected by the hundreds of deaths around us. We feel safe, secure and sheltered by all that is wrong in this world. We kinda don't care. The danger is elusive and far away. But everything changes when we have an encounter with death up close and personal. Until then, all is good, and you believe the "dark side" will never strike so close to home. Then the wake up call comes.

 

[Lacy33]

It's a lesson for all of us.

This I have to support. I'm sorry it happened to one of our own here. But it is happening to perhaps more here and we don't hear about it. This happened to get a lot of media attention.

 

[Lacy33]

No, some of us already learned this lesson:

Mugaliens and others with serious service.
Evo and her Friend.
Me.
I'm sure, countless others here.

Math just learned that lesson the only way you can, and you're trying to make it about some personal philosophy before he's even past the shock. I don't disagree with WHAT you're saying, but when and to whom.

Math is not living on this forum and he is getting good supports where he is. His community is lucky that it had them in place.
I do not think there is any harm done by bringing up facts and facts they were.
I was a little embarrassed that when he did return he came back to a thread that had already begun to express the confussion surrounding all kinds of situations of discord.
he did not have a personal space to express his pain. He just jumped right back into the general confusion that is all over this world.
I can only say that for a sheltered community like the one he use to live in, his 11 year old did not have to see people dying. A parent can choose when a child is old enough to be introduced to death and dying generally in these kinds of communities.

 

[Evo]

Something that's not been well reported in the news is that six of her staffers died.

What are you talking about?

 

[turbo]

Something that's not been well reported in the news is that six of her staffers died.

One of her staffers (Gabe Zimmerman) was killed. The other five fatalities were people who showed up to talk to her, including a Federal district judge and a little girl.

 

[Lacy33]

One lady staffer just walked out of the hopital. TG

 

[nismaratwork]

Ppl bleed to death on other areas of this world as we speak. Some are maimed by anti-personal mines, some are killed by random terrorist attacks, some perish due to famine,
thousands are killed in violent assaults. Some are shoot by cops, sometimes with no very good reasons reasons, a case was discussed not so long ago here.

It;s interesting psychologically that we seem largely unaffected by the hundreds of deaths around us. We feel safe, secure and sheltered by all that is wrong in this world. We kinda don't care. The danger is elusive and far away. But everything changes when we have an encounter with death up close and personal. Until then, all is good, and you believe the "dark side" will never strike so close to home. Then the wake up call comes.

re: bolded: For a lucky few, yes. The rest of the world lives with violence and death far closer, which probably accounts for such a variety in the manner that cultures view and deal with death.

 

[nismaratwork]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/01/14/arizona.shooting.website/index.html?hpt=T2

Why have we been arguing? Now that video-games are in the mix, even tangentially, we know who to blame. <---deeply sarcastic

 

[russ_watters]

Hey, don't bring me into this. Russ still thinks I'm a closet liberal with ulterior motives. I'm usually just deflecting fire.

Neither "closet" nor "ulterior motives" are terms I'd use but regardless it doesn't really matter. I'm not interested in arguing about it and I don't care what's going on in your head that makes it happen, I just point out (and then let go) when you post something that goes against facts and common definitions, such as your thing about Obama being a centrist. I think it is less confusing for the other members when they get a correction than just letting the misinformation stand unchallenged. You're quite clear about what your beliefs are, it's just the label that you put on them and others that hold the same beliefs that often doesn't make sense. Perhaps you could make it easier for the other members by putting a disclaimer in your sig that says something to the effect of: "Disclaimer: I use definitions for "liberal" and "conservative" that don't match the standard definitions." I think that would help avoid confusing the other members. That way when you say 'Obama is a centrist' people don't have to wonder what the heck you're talking about.

 

[arildno]

To everyone's common relief, I hope, it is reported that Giffords can now move her legs on command.
The doctors are planning to remove her breathing tube.
The other patients are also on recovery, one is soon ready to be discharged.
http://wildcat.arizona.edu/news/giffords-can-move-legs-begins-physical-therapy-1.1843099

 

[russ_watters]

Phew, thanks... I was worried that I only thought you were painfully cynical. By the way, how do you know that fluff doesn't win your support... have you allowed for a scientific examination of your voting and ideological history?

I'm very open to such things if anyone is interested in studying me. I think researchers could learn a lot from me.

And I do occasionally take those 'where do you stand politically' tests and have been pretty consistently moderately conservative (on an American scale) all my life. On this forum I probably seem very conservative, but that's only because the Americans on this forum are oriented well left (on average) and the forum includes a lot of Europeans. So I'm very far to the right of average for the forum.

You certainly seem to be swayed by it, just not fluff you dislike or find less than useful... it seems. Of course, maybe you defy the odds, but of the people on this site I'd have called as being "above it all"... you're not it. I'm not either, don't get me wrong, but you and Ivan are the legendary pair chasing each other for eternity... I'd be crushed if that was shaken somehow.

Well it is true that fluff has the opposite effect on me that it is intended to (particularly with marketing - I'll make a mental note of commercials I hate and make sure to avoid the products if I get a chance) and that opposite effect isn't "no effect", but it also really is true that a fluff speech doesn't do anything for me. I brought up Bush as an example for the other side of the fence. I think you'll be hard pressed to find a hard-core liberals on the forum who would acknowledge reciprocity in their own politicians.