Required conditions for vertical circular motion to occur?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the conditions necessary for a particle attached to an inextensible string to achieve complete vertical circular motion after being given a horizontal impulse. Participants explore the implications of tension in the string at the apex of the motion.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Debate/contested, Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the tension in the string must be greater than zero (T>0) at the apex for the string to remain taut throughout the motion.
  • Others argue that it may be possible for the tension to be zero (T=0) at the apex, suggesting that the particle could still complete the circular motion if it has sufficient velocity to regain tension shortly after the apex.
  • A participant questions whether T>0 is a more generalized assumption compared to T≥0, indicating a need for clarity on the sufficiency of these conditions.
  • Another participant expresses uncertainty about their analysis, acknowledging the possibility of being incorrect.
  • One participant asks how the conditions could be proven, indicating a desire for a deeper exploration of the topic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether T>0 or T≥0 is necessary for complete circular motion, and multiple competing views remain regarding the role of tension at the apex.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the implications of different tension conditions and the assumptions underlying their arguments, but these remain unresolved.

whit3r0se-
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For the case of a particle attached to an inextensible string which is hanging at rest and then provided an impulse horizontally, what conditions must the system meet in order to allow for COMPLETE circular motion. I am well aware the tension at the apex of the motion must be satisfy one of the following:
  • T>0
  • T≥0
So which one is it?
 
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whit3r0se- said:
For the case of a particle attached to an inextensible string which is hanging at rest and then provided an impulse horizontally, what conditions must the system meet in order to allow for COMPLETE circular motion. I am well aware the tension at the apex of the motion must be satisfy one of the following:
  • T>0
  • T≥0
So which one is it?
Welcome to the PF. :smile:

Which do you think is correct, and why? Is this for schoolwork?
 
Well if I'm to follow the general principle that the string must be taut at all times, it seems logical that it must be T>0. However i still think it possible for the tension to be 0 at the apex and for it to still continue perform vertical circles by gaining enough velocity to become immediately taught after it has turned an angle of ∂θ from the vertical.
This isn't for school work, I'm just curious.
 
Last edited:
First, the word you are intending to use is "taut", not "taught" (unless you intend to teach the string something :smile:)

Personally, I think your analysis is correct, but it would not astonish me to find that we are both wrong for some reason.
 
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Is T>0, a more generalised assumption?
 
Last edited:
whit3r0se- said:
Is T>0, a more generalised assumption?
No, it's either right or overkill. If T>=0 is sufficient there is no need to say that T>0 is required because that would imply that T=0 is insufficient.
 
How can we prove this?
 

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