Resolving the Clock Paradox: The Hafele and Keating Experiment

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the Hafele and Keating experiment, which tested Einstein's theory of relativity using cesium atomic beam clocks flown around the world. Participants explore the implications of the experiment's results, particularly regarding time dilation effects experienced by the clocks during eastward and westward flights.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the measured time differences of the flying clocks compared to reference clocks, noting the discrepancies between predicted and measured values for both eastward and westward journeys.
  • Another participant suggests consulting Benjamin Crowell's book for further insights on the topic.
  • A participant elaborates on the effects of gravitational and velocity dilation on the clocks, explaining that the westward clock experiences less time dilation due to its slower movement relative to the Earth's center and its altitude.
  • Concerns are raised about the reliability of the Wikipedia page on the Hafele and Keating experiment, with a suggestion to refer to hyperphysics for a clearer explanation of the Sagnac effect and its relevance to the experiment.
  • A participant questions the interpretation of time measurements with respect to the Earth's surface versus its center, indicating a potential misunderstanding or misreading of the hyperphysics page.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation of the results and the relevance of various effects (gravitational dilation, velocity dilation, Sagnac effect). There is no consensus on the implications of the findings or the clarity of the sources referenced.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in the clarity of certain sources, including potential confusion regarding the Sagnac effect and the reference frames used in calculations. There are also unresolved questions about the interpretation of time measurements relative to different reference points.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying relativity, time dilation, or the Hafele and Keating experiment, as well as individuals looking for various perspectives on the interpretation of experimental results in physics.

tkm2002
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"During October, 1971, four cesium atomic beam clocks were flown on regularly scheduled commercial jet flights around the world twice, once eastward and once westward, to test Einstein's theory of relativity with macroscopic clocks. From the actual flight paths of each trip, the theory predicted that the flying clocks, compared with reference clocks at the U.S. Naval Observatory, should have lost 40+/-23 nanoseconds during the eastward trip and should have gained 275+/-21 nanoseconds during the westward trip ... Relative to the atomic time scale of the U.S. Naval Observatory, the flying clocks lost 59+/-10 nanoseconds during the eastward trip and gained 273+/-7 nanosecond during the westward trip, where the errors are the corresponding standard deviations. These results provide an unambiguous empirical resolution of the famous clock "paradox" with macroscopic clocks."

Eastward Journey Westward Journey
Predicted -40 +/- 23 ns + 275 +/- 21 ns
Measured -59 +/- 10 ns + 273 +/- 7 ns



I don't know why the time gained 273+/-7 nanosecond during the westward trip?
 
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tkm2002 said:
Eastward Journey Westward Journey
Predicted -40 +/- 23 ns + 275 +/- 21 ns
Measured -59 +/- 10 ns + 273 +/- 7 ns



I don't know why the time gained 273+/-7 nanosecond during the westward trip?

Another very clear description is at hyperphysics. See Around-the-World Atomic Clocks.

Basically, the clocks are affected by gravitational dilation (higher up in Earth's gravitational field they run more slowly) and velocity dilation (due to their speed of movement around the Earth).

The clock that remains at the same place on Earth's surface is also moving with Earth's own rotation, and this needs to be considered.

Both clocks have similar gravitational dilation. The clock flying westward is flying towards the setting Sun, and so it is flying against Earth's rotation. It moves the most slowly with respect to the center of the Earth, and so has the least time dilation with respect to the center of the Earth. The clock at one place on the surface is moving faster wrt to the Earth's center, and hence it runs slow. The west flying clock should be expected to record more time when the clocks come to the same position again. The east flying clock is going faster that the "fixed" clock, and so it will lose time.

Both clocks gain time because of the gravitational effects, but the east flying clock loses more than it gains, and so runs slightly slow. The west flying clock gains both because it is slower than the fixed clock, and also higher.

All velocity calculations are done in the more or less inertial frame of Earth's center.

Cheers -- sylas
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hafele%E2%80%93Keating_experiment" also mentions sagnac effect, but how do you get the formula
 
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vin300 said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hafele%E2%80%93Keating_experiment" also mentions sagnac effect, but how do you get the formula

That wikipedia page looks dubious, and the discussion page indicates (as is often the case) a lot of cranks who think they understand relativity and don't. Handle with care.

I recommend the hyperphysics page that I cited previously. However, the link didn't work because of the way frames are handled. Here's a better link to the hyperphysics description.

The Sagnac effect is simply an alternative way to handle the motion of the reference point fixed on the surface of the Earth. You don't need to use it if you calculate velocities with respect to the center of the Earth. The page above explains the formulae used, and they way they do it, using the center of the Earth as the reference point, means you don't have to use the Sagnac effect.

The wikipedia page is a bit confused on that, and some of the people discussing it in the wikipedia discussion are completely mistaken about it. It might be a good project for someone with an interest in wikipedia to try improving the article. Seriously. I edit wikipedia from time to time and its easy.

Cheers -- sylas
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sylas, is it my imagination, or does the hyperphysics page claim that the time measured w.r.t. the Earth's surface is greater than that measured w.r.t. the Earth's center? This goes against what I thought the case was, and what you appear to be saying. It has also been awhile, and I may be misreading.Thanks!
 

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