Twins Paradox Thought Exp: What Happens When Reunited?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the twins paradox in relativity, focusing on a hypothetical experiment to explore the time dilation effects experienced by twins when one travels at relativistic speeds. Participants examine the implications of their observations during the journey and the subsequent reunion, highlighting the complexities of time perception and the relativity of simultaneity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that both twins will see each other's watches running slow throughout the journey, regardless of their relative motion, until they reunite.
  • Another participant points out the importance of the relativity of simultaneity, questioning what time the Earth clock reads at the moment a baby is born on the rocket, depending on the inertial frame considered.
  • A different perspective suggests that during the outbound journey, the traveling twin will see the Earth clock running slow, but upon turning around, they will see it running fast due to the Doppler effect, while the Earth twin will not perceive this change until later.
  • It is noted that the twin who turns around experiences a shift in how they perceive the other twin's clock, with the Earth twin seeing the traveling twin's clock speed up only after the light from the turnaround event reaches them.
  • Participants discuss the implications of time dilation and Doppler effects, suggesting that the total time experienced by each twin will differ significantly by the time they reunite.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the effects of time dilation and the relativity of simultaneity, indicating that multiple competing interpretations of the twins paradox remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexities of time perception in relativistic contexts, including the dependence on inertial frames and the effects of acceleration, which are not fully resolved within the conversation.

  • #31
Grasshopper said:
It seems the misconception is people get the idea that the time dilation effect and Doppler effect are competing with each other for approaching clocks. But the equation says what it says fairly unambiguously.
To be precise, that's the relativistic Doppler effect, which involves an element of time dilation. There is, for example, the transverse Doppler effect, which is essentially all due to time dilation.

In general, whether there is a redshift or blueshift also depends on the angle between the source and receiver. When the angle is zero there is always a blueshift (increased frequency).
 
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  • #32
Grasshopper said:
It seems the misconception is people get the idea that the time dilation effect and Doppler effect are competing with each other for approaching clocks. But the equation says what it says fairly unambiguously.
You can see the relativistic Doppler effect as the product of the Lorentz gamma factor and the naive distance-change-only Doppler factor of non-relativistic physics. In that sense, yes, the naive Doppler effect dominates the relativistic time dilation effect to get a net speed-up for sources approaching you.

But I'd say it's more sensible to call relativistic Doppler "Doppler" and refer to the distance-change-only effect by another term (distance-change-only, for example). Relativistic Doppler is the measurable thing - the other is a frame-dependent effect, so less important.
 
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