Rest Frame in GTR: What Is It?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of a "rest frame" in General Theory of Relativity (GTR) and how motion is measured relative to different frames. It explores the differences between Special Theory of Relativity (STR) and GTR regarding the use of coordinates and observers, as well as the implications of these differences in the context of curved spacetime.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that in GTR, motion can be calculated from any frame, emphasizing the freedom of choice inherent in the concept of relativity.
  • Others argue that while GTR allows for generalized coordinates, introductory STR typically specifies inertial frames with certain properties for the theory to function correctly.
  • A participant mentions that the use of generalized coordinates is not unique to GTR, as STR can also utilize general coordinates through tensors, although this is often taught at a more advanced level.
  • Some authors advocate for omitting the concept of an observer in GTR, suggesting that it may not be necessary or useful at an introductory level, though it can be convenient later on.
  • A later reply discusses the analogy of finding coordinates in GR to locating oneself on a map, using physical measurements to determine one's position in spacetime.
  • Another participant points out that in the context of relativity, "observer" is often synonymous with "reference frame," but clarifies that a physical observer is not required to define a reference frame, indicating potential confusion in terminology.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the necessity and role of observers in GTR, the use of coordinates, and the implications of these concepts in both STR and GTR. The discussion remains unresolved with differing perspectives on the definitions and applications of reference frames.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions made about the necessity of observers, the completeness of requirements for coordinates in GTR, and the mathematical steps involved in connecting the metric tensor to physical observations.

Sandeep T S
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In STR we measure motion relative to a observer, and the he is rest respect to him. We make coordinates relative to "a rest frame" , that is the observer.
In GTR ,all motion are calculated from which frame?
 
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Any you like. That you have a free choice is basically what the word "relativity" means in this context.

Note that this is also true in special relativity - it is usually formulated in terms of global inertial reference frames because that's easier, but it's not obligatory.

Note also that it isn't always possible to use one single coordinate system to cover all of a curved spacetime.

Finally, note that there is often a particular coordinate system picked out by the physics you're interested in. Maths is often easier using this system. For example Schwarzschild's coordinates in Schwarzschild spacetime are convenient for observers stationary with respect to the black hole and co-moving coordinates are convenient for cosmology. Nothing stops you using more weird and wonderful systems if you like, except the headaches and extra algebra doing so induces.
 
Sandeep T S said:
In STR we measure motion relative to a observer, and the he is rest respect to him. We make coordinates relative to "a rest frame" , that is the observer.
In GTR ,all motion are calculated from which frame?

In introductory SR, inertial frames of reference are usually specified These inertial frames must have certain properties and follow certain conventions for the theory to work. GR allows the use of generalized coordinates, that have no other requirements than smoothness, uniqueness, and internal consistency. (This may not be a complete list of the modest requirements for coordinates in GR and it is off-the-cuff rather than mathematically precise).

The use of generalized coordinates is not actually unique to GR, SR can also use general coordinates, via the use of tensors. The necessary tensor methods are usually taught at the graduate level (though sometimes advanced undergraduate levels).

Some authors, (for instance Misner, in "Precis of General Relativity") advocate omitting the concept of an observer from GR entirely as unnecessary. I would tend to agree that it's not necessary or even particularly useful to talk about observers at an introductory level, but it can be convenient later on.

Finding one's coordinates in GR is rather like locating oneself on a map of the Earth. Certain landmarks on the map are specified, and one observes these landmarks by taking physical measurements, such as telescope observation times and bearings (in the case of astronomy), or by receiving radio transmisions from satellites (in the case of GPS). From these observations of these reference landmarks, combined with the map of space-time, one is able to locate oneself on the space-time map, finding one's position in space, and one's "position in time", i.e. one's time coordinate.

Given a set of coordinates, one can single out the worldlines of objects with constant coordinates, which one could measure motion relative to.

The mathematical entity that serves as the "map" in GR is the metric tensor. It's usually presented as a mathematical formula. Learning about GR generally consists of first learning what a tensor is, followed by learning what the metric tensor is. The last phase is learning how to manipulate the metric tensor to calculate the other mathematical entities in the theory (curvature tensors, Christoffel symbols, geodesic paths, for instance, all of which can be calculated from a knowledge of the metric tensor). Finally, to intererpret the theory, one needs to connect the math to the previously mentioned physical observations.
 
Sandeep T S said:
We make coordinates relative to "a rest frame" , that is the observer.
In the context of Relativity "observer" is usually just a synonym for "reference frame". However, to define a reference frame, you don't need an actual physical observer at rest in that frame. So this language is misleading.
 

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