Resulting magnetic flux in the core of a transformer

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the resulting magnetic flux in the core of a transformer, focusing on the relationships between currents, voltages, turns, and magnetic fluxes in both primary and secondary windings. Participants explore theoretical aspects, practical implications, and potential misconceptions related to transformer operation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents equations relating primary and secondary currents, voltages, and magnetic fluxes, questioning how a nonzero resulting flux can exist if the opposing fluxes are equal.
  • Another participant clarifies that the driving force for induced electromotive force (emf) is the change in flux, suggesting that a nonzero amplitude of V2 is necessary to counteract the opposing fluxes.
  • A further contribution discusses the balance of flux in relation to the impedance of the primary coil, indicating that the magnetizing current I1 is necessary for maintaining this balance, especially under load conditions.
  • Another participant notes that the ratio of I1 to I2 is not exactly equal to the turns ratio due to the presence of a small magnetizing current that is typically ignored in power transformers.
  • A question is raised about the equivalent circuit of a transformer and the possibility of conducting practical experiments to observe magnetizing current.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of the magnetic flux in the transformer core, with some emphasizing the importance of the magnetizing current and others questioning the conditions under which the flux can be considered nonzero. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the precise dynamics of flux balance in transformers.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the presence of assumptions regarding the phase relationship of currents and the simplifications made in practical transformer analysis. There is also mention of historical accuracy in approximations related to transformer operation.

HeleneFR
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In a transformer, let's say we have:
I1, I2 - currents through the primary and secondary winding
V1, V2 - voltages
N1, N2 - number of turns
F1, F2 - magnetic fluxes through core, produced by the currents I1 and I2 (they are opposing...)
R - the reluctance of the core

We have V1/V2 = N1/N2 = I2/I1.
F1=N1*I1/R; F2=N2*I2/R
I think I1 and I2 are in phase too.
That means F1 and F2 are practically equal.
How can we have a nonzero resulting flux through the core? F=F1-F2
If the flux through the iron core is zero, then the cause that produces V2 (variation of the flux) does not exist, then V2=0?
I know I'm wrong, but i don't know where is the mistake...
 
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Hello helene, :welcome:

As you say, the driving force for induction emf is not the flux itself, but the change in the flux. To keep up counteracting F1 with F2, the amplitude of V2 has to be nonzero.
 
HeleneFR said:
How can we have a nonzero resulting flux through the core? F=F1-F2
Say that the impedance in the primary coil = Z1. Then the transformer will balance the flux through N1 so that

( Vsupply - dψv/dt ) / Z1 = I1 as for the primary coil when the transformer is unloaded. ( ψv = Flux * N1 ).

I1 is the current needed for magnetizing the core so that this balance is achieved.

Say that I1 is too small, ψv will be too small → the back emf will be too small → the voltage difference ( the parentheses above ) will be to high, so that I1 will increase.

If you load the transformer, I2 will decrease the flux so that I1 must increase to keep up balance.
 
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HeleneFR said:
We have V1/V2 = N1/N2 = I2/I1.
F1=N1*I1/R; F2=N2*I2/R
I think I1 and I2 are in phase too.

realize that I1/I2 isn't exactly equal to turns ratio.
There is small magnetizing current to produce flux enough to oppose applied voltage. It flows in primary winding only and is a loss.
But in a power transformer it's quite small compared to load current so is generally ignored. In the golden era of slide rule accuracy(3 digits) it was a quite reasonable approximation.

Have you studied equivalent circuit of a transformer ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformer

Do you have a lab at school where you could apply variable voltage to a transformer and plot magnetizing current ?

old jim
 

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