Reynolds Transport Theorem derivation question

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a specific step in the derivation of the Reynolds Transport Theorem, focusing on the treatment of derivatives involved in the theorem, particularly the transition from partial derivatives to material derivatives. Participants explore the implications of these derivatives in the context of scalar and vector fields.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the replacement of the partial derivative with the material derivative in the context of the Reynolds Transport Theorem.
  • Another participant explains that the material derivative represents the derivative with respect to time while keeping the initial position constant.
  • A different participant questions the validity of using the material derivative, noting that the integrand in the control volume only contains a partial derivative.
  • It is clarified that for a vector field, the material derivative includes both the partial derivative and an additional term related to the flow of the vector field.
  • One participant asserts that the transport theorem should be applicable to both scalar and vector fields without the need for switching derivatives.
  • Another participant distinguishes between a material fluid and a control volume, suggesting that the use of partial derivatives is appropriate for control volumes.
  • A later reply indicates that the distinction between material and control volumes helps clarify the use of different types of derivatives.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit disagreement regarding the necessity and appropriateness of using the material derivative versus the partial derivative in the context of the Reynolds Transport Theorem. No consensus is reached on the implications of these derivatives for scalar versus vector fields.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the nuances in the definitions and applications of derivatives in fluid dynamics, particularly in relation to the Reynolds Transport Theorem. Participants acknowledge the complexity of the theorem's application to different types of fields.

Rearden
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Hi,

I'm struggling to understand one step in the derivation of the Reynold's Transport Theorem. I get as far as:

\begin{equation}
\frac{d}{dt} \int_{V(t)} f(\mathbf x, t) \, dV = \frac {d} {dt} \int_{V_0} f(\mathbf X,t) J(\mathbf X,t) \, dV = \int_{V_0} J \frac {\partial f} {\partial t} + f \frac {\partial J} {\partial t} \, dV
\end{equation}

From here, I want to write the RHS as:

\begin{equation}
\int_{V_0} \frac {\partial f} {\partial t} J + f \, ({\nabla \cdot} {\mathbf v}) J \,\, dV = \int_{V(t)} \frac {\partial f} {\partial t} + f \, ({\nabla \cdot} {\mathbf v}) \,\, dV
\end{equation}

However, all of my sources inexplicably replace the \begin{equation} \frac {\partial f} {\partial t} \end{equation} with a \begin{equation} \frac {Df} {Dt} \end{equation} Could anyone explain their reasoning or my error?

Thanks!
 
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\begin{equation} \frac {Df} {Dt} \end{equation} is just the material derivative (the derivative with respect to time while keeping the initial position constant).
 
But isn't the material derivative given by the total derivative wrt time, \begin{equation} \frac {df} {dt} = \frac {\partial f} {\partial t} + (\mathbf v \cdot \nabla) f \end{equation} whereas the integrand over the control volume just contains a partial derivative?
 
Yes, it is if f is a scalar field. But in the Reynolds transport theorem, f is a vector field. For a vector field V, the material derivative is defined as follows:

\begin{equation} \frac {Df} {Dt} = \frac {\partial V} {\partial t} + (\mathbf V \cdot \nabla) V \end{equation}
 
Afraid I still don't follow. Why is the material derivative involved at all? In the ordinary course of physics we never swap a partial derivative for a total derivative, and as I understand it, the material derivative gives:
\begin{equation}
\frac {df(\mathbf x (\mathbf X,t),t)} {dt}
\end{equation}
which is not the integrand. I'm fairly certain the transport theorem is equally valid for scalars and vectors, so that shouldn't have made a difference either.
 
You are taking the material derivative because the volume is a material fluid (a function of initial position and time where there is no flux of mass) as opposed to a control volume which is just a function of position with a fixed volume. Basically, you can still use the transport theorem on a control fluid, you just need to take the partial derivative instead of the material derivative. The same thing goes for a scalar field; the theorem is still applicable, you just need to consider that when deriving it.
 
Thanks for pointing out that distinction, it clears things up.
 
Glad to be of assistance.
 

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