Riemann Criterion for Integrability - Stoll: Theorem 6.17

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around Stoll's proof of the Riemann Criterion for Integrability, specifically Theorem 6.17 from his book "Introduction to Real Analysis." Participants are examining the conditions under which certain inequalities related to the upper and lower sums of a function hold, and they seek a rigorous justification for these inequalities.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Peter expresses concern about the rigorous justification for inequalities (3) and (4) in Stoll's proof, questioning how they follow from the definitions of infimum and supremum.
  • Some participants suggest that if the Riemann integral exists, then both the infimum and supremum must exist and be equal to the integral, implying that the inequalities are plausible.
  • Peter acknowledges that he might be overthinking the issue after receiving feedback, indicating a level of uncertainty about his initial concerns.
  • Peter shares that he found additional resources in Matthew A. Pons' book that clarify the definitions of supremums and infimums, which he believes may address his concerns.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the rigorous justification for the inequalities in question. There is acknowledgment of the plausibility of the claims, but no definitive resolution is provided regarding the exact reasoning behind them.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference definitions and lemmas from various texts, indicating that the discussion may depend on specific interpretations of mathematical concepts related to integrability and the properties of upper and lower sums.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and educators in real analysis, particularly those interested in the Riemann Criterion for Integrability and the foundational concepts of supremums and infimums.

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I am reading Manfred Stoll's book: Introduction to Real Analysis.

I need help with Stoll's proof of Riemann's Criterion for Integrability - Stoll: Theorem 6.17

Stoll's statement of this theorem and its proof reads as follows:
https://www.physicsforums.com/attachments/3941In the above proof we read the following:

" ... ... Conversely, suppose $$f$$ is integrable on $$[a,b]$$. Let $$\epsilon \gt 0$$ be given. Then there exist partitions $$\mathscr{P}_1$$ and $$\mathscr{P}_2$$ of $$[a,b]$$ such that

$$\mathscr{U}( \mathscr{P}_2 , f ) - \int^b_a f \lt \frac{ \epsilon }{2}$$ ... ... ... (3)$$\int^b_a f - \mathscr{L}( \mathscr{P}_1 , f ) \lt \frac{ \epsilon }{2}$$ ... ... ... (4)

... ... "My problem is that I am concerned as to why exactly (3) (4) follow ... ...

(I know they seem plausible ... but what is a rigorous argument to say they hold ... )Presumably (3) (4) follow because

$$\overline{\int^b_a}f = \text{inf} \{ \mathscr{U}( \mathscr{P} , f ): \mathscr{P} \text{ is a partition of } [a,b] \}$$

and

$$\underline{\int^b_a}f = \text{sup} \{ \mathscr{L}( \mathscr{P} , f ): \mathscr{P} \text{ is a partition of } [a,b] \}$$

and, further that

$$\int^b_a f = \underline{\int^b_a} f = \overline{\int^b_a} f
$$

Is this correct?

However ... ... even if this is correct I am concerned to see an rigorous and exact explanation of why (3) and (4) above are true ...

Can someone please help?

Peter
So MHB members who are interested can follow the notation and definitions behind this post I am now providing the first basic elements of Stoll's presentation of the the theory of integration ... as follows ... ...
View attachment 3942
View attachment 3943
View attachment 3944
View attachment 3945
 
Last edited:
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Hi Peter,

It follows from that, if the Riemann integral exists, then both infimum and supremum must exist and be equal to the integral.

Now take a paper, write down the infimum definition and the statement you want to prove, move your head a little bit away and realize they are the same. ;)
 
Fallen Angel said:
Hi Peter,

It follows from that, if the Riemann integral exists, then both infimum and supremum must exist and be equal to the integral.

Now take a paper, write down the infimum definition and the statement you want to prove, move your head a little bit away and realize they are the same. ;)
Yes ... probably overthinking this issue ...

Thanks Fallen Angel ...

Peter
 
Peter said:
Yes ... probably overthinking this issue ...

Thanks Fallen Angel ...

Peter
Hi again Fallen Angel ...

Your post sent me searching my various texts for definitions and propositions concerning supremums and infimums to ensure I understod the notions and what they implied ...

One of the books was Matthew A. Pons book: Real Analysis for the Undergraduate ... and ... after his definition of a supremum we find Lemma 1.2.10 and some remarks on it and the proof ... ! .. just what I wanted ...

I am now studying the remarks and the proof ...

For the interests of MHB members, here is the definition followed by Lemma 1.2.10 and its proof ...
https://www.physicsforums.com/attachments/3946
View attachment 3947I think Lemma 1.2.10 thoroughly clarifies the issue ...

My admiration for Pons as a rigorous and clear text just went up a notch ...

Peter
 

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