RIP Pope John Paul II - A Day of Respect and Mourning

[stoned]

Did you guys see him in real life? I saw him once from far, far away, but my roomate saw him (while he was only a bishop) dozen of times in Krakow.

 

[Moses]

nor being famous, neither fighting against another threatens of muslim religion whose supporters have been shown several times a dislike to the Catholic Church. He only honestly pursued actively the Peace between men.

I wish the next Pope had the same grade of humanity of J. Paul II.

I don't want to change the thread, I am so sad of the Pope leaving,
Speaking of facts:
Muslims appreciate that the Pope did not recognize the invasion powers who invaded the Holy Land as a state until 1986, and Muslims deeply understand
the pressure he had from European goverments, almost exactly as the pressures now made against muslims by the anti-religion powers in the political regiemes of europe.

Muslims and Christians has many, so many intersection points among both religions. However, there is a critical differences [e.g Muslims believe that Jesus is God Messenger, not God son nor Trinity do exist...etc] and both DISLIKE the differnce happen. If you see something right, you dislike what you think it is wrong.

The Pope apologized for the jews abuot the discrimination happened to them in Europe. However, he did not apologize yet to the muslims for all the crusades wages against them, the courts of killing them after Spain re-conquesta by Catholics and many other staff. With a sure voice still Muslims deeply apprecaite the Pope actions and understand the pressures on him.

Will, let's assume he is the enemy of the muslims, they loves their enemy [Catholics are not the only onese who do so, even Athiests some times do the same thing]. So by all means Muslims unconditionally loves him, as He loves them too. Still the strong disgreements between both is another issue.

Once again, a point i see a must to be clarified and i hope i did. Apologize if i change the thread a bit our of track.

 

[arildno]

I firmly believe John Paul's display of humility and portrayal of himself as a servant, was genuine, and not an act put on so as to only seem holy and pious.

If he secretly had cared mostly about himself, and despised the "masses", how would he have reacted to the severe illnesses he became plagued with?
I think, that if that were true, then he would have secluded himself in a fog of self-pity and bitterness at the world.

But John Paul reacted completely differently. He drove himself on, and as far as he was physically able to, tried to remain open and accessible to ordinary men and women.
Why would he do so, if he didn't value them highly or felt that they had legitimate claims on him that it was his task to satisfy?

And only because he genuinely valued these people, could he draw nourishment for himself from talking with them so that he managed yet another day filled with physical pain.
If he hadn't respected the ordinary people he met with (and, I think, admired), such meetings would just have been onerous to him and he would have disbanded the practice altogether.

For all his various opinions, John Paul also embodied the very best sides within the Catholic faith; there aren't that many other popes you can say the same of.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

While sitting here with the morning news on, it strikes me that this funeral - with two million christians expected to attend - is quite a target for terrorists.

 

[cronxeh]

the god damned theatre that is unfolding on national tv is sickening and i want to puke everytime i see the pope.

 

[Smurf]

the god damned theatre that is unfolding on national tv is sickening and i want to puke everytime i see the pope.

I would agree with you, but I don't watch TV, but I'm sure If I did I'd agree with you.

While sitting here with the morning news on, it strikes me that this funeral - with two million christians expected to attend - is quite a target for terrorists.

That's actually quite amusing.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

That's actually quite amusing.

Why would you say that?

 

[cronxeh]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/aids/story/0,7369,1059068,00.html

Well this article alone is enough for JP2 to burn in hell for all eternity.

 

[russ_watters]

While sitting here with the morning news on, it strikes me that this funeral - with two million christians expected to attend - is quite a target for terrorists.

More importantly, several thousand world leaders/dignitaries...

 

[cronxeh]

Russ that's the problem with this whole thing - how is a world leader or any other dignitary more important than any other human being?

For effs sake its just a freaking pope people! He spread lies and what little good he did cancels out with overall evil he helped spread.

Edit: Besides, everyday people die and some of them have a more dignitary life than any pope combined - yet nobody mentions them.

 

[Clausius2]

I don't want to change the thread, I am so sad of the Pope leaving,
Speaking of facts:
Muslims appreciate that the Pope did not recognize the invasion powers who invaded the Holy Land as a state until 1986, and Muslims deeply understand
the pressure he had from European goverments, almost exactly as the pressures now made against muslims by the anti-religion powers in the political regiemes of europe.

Muslims and Christians has many, so many intersection points among both religions. However, there is a critical differences [e.g Muslims believe that Jesus is God Messenger, not God son nor Trinity do exist...etc] and both DISLIKE the differnce happen. If you see something right, you dislike what you think it is wrong.

The Pope apologized for the jews abuot the discrimination happened to them in Europe. However, he did not apologize yet to the muslims for all the crusades wages against them, the courts of killing them after Spain re-conquesta by Catholics and many other staff. With a sure voice still Muslims deeply apprecaite the Pope actions and understand the pressures on him.

Will, let's assume he is the enemy of the muslims, they loves their enemy [Catholics are not the only onese who do so, even Athiests some times do the same thing]. So by all means Muslims unconditionally loves him, as He loves them too. Still the strong disgreements between both is another issue.

Once again, a point i see a must to be clarified and i hope i did. Apologize if i change the thread a bit our of track.

Don't worry, you haven't changed this thread, but you do have change my words. I said: it has been accurately demonstrated that nowadays muslim religion and muslim leaders dislike Catholic religion. In fact, they call us the "unfaithful" (correct me, but I think the Coran refers to this word when talking about christians, if I am wrong sorry then). On the other hand, the head of Catholic Church and the Church itself have forgotten all about the spanish Reconquist and this sort of old troubles. It is muslim religion and muslims leaders who seem not to have forgotten it yet.

On the contrary, John Paul II has collaborated joining each religion (recall Asis Assembly where every religious leaders of the world were invited by him to talk and to share about each religion, he promoted the event) because he did think every faithful men thinks of the same. On the contrary, he collaborated providing stability to the world, not like the leaders of muslim religion (we DO know that they promote instabilities across the entire world).

As a result John Paul II was a figure of humanity and comprehension, and by the way he did a lot to defeat comunism in Poland and make polish men free. Also he traveled to poor places, where no politician want to go, where poorest and undefended people live, giving them hopeness and listening them.

All of these was closed to an extraordinary sense of humor.

Don't forget, Moses, there is an essential difference as far as how Catholic (and occidental) church views the World, how we try to built over it peacefully, and on the contrary how muslim relgious leaders see the world, reinstauring pain and fear, actively destroying the equilibrium in world, and recalling old battles which have been forgotten in occident a lot of time ago.

Now is when Evo closes the thread. I apoligize if I have said something non political correct, but I feel it is neccesary to use the Democracy to say the truth, no matter who is offended and no matter how it sounds. I am not going to be dishonest with myself saying stupidities only for giving a pretty appearance of tolerance. I have started this thread and I think it is needed a clarification and underline the labour of the Pope John Paul II also by comparing with another people who has apparently the same position and by the way a greater number of believers, and who haven't made nothing positive for improving the life in this planet.

"Al pan pan, y al vino vino". or
"Las cosas claras y el chocolate espeso", are two adages in spanish which mean "the more clarified what is talked, the better"

 

[russ_watters]

Russ that's the problem with this whole thing - how is a world leader or any other dignitary more important than any other human being?

Do you really not know? People in that position (and the Pope is included) have real power. Real power means they have the means at their disposal to affect world events with their decisions - and that means the lives of millions (if not billions) of people.

One of the things he will be remembered for (as mentioned) is his influence on the fall of Communism. Including its continued decline in China, the fall of Communism has had a major impact on the lives of perhaps half the world's population and a secondary impact on almost everyone else.

Edit: Besides, everyday people die and some of them have a more dignitary life than any pope combined - yet nobody mentions them.

I'm not sure you understand what that word means...

 

[cronxeh]

I'm not sure you understand what that word means...

Well unfortunately the root in word dignitary is not that of dignity, so you are correct there. And as far as dignitaries are concerned - their power comes from those who follow them, and if you are standing in the middle of an empty room nobody really gives a damn what you think, do they now

 

[dextercioby]

THERE GOES ANOTHER POPE! NEXT,PLEASE!

The Nikolaj Kopernik,Giordano Bruno & Galileo Galilei Foundation...

 

[Bladibla]

I feel sad as to talk to another human being he had to die. However, i couldn't care less how it affects religion.

 

[stoned]

While sitting here with the morning news on, it strikes me that this funeral - with two million christians expected to attend - is quite a target for terrorists.

Yeah ! where are all those terrorists we were told were ready to strike at any time and inflict huge losses ? Hmm?
Remember sleeper cells,Alqaida? evil Osama Bin Ladin ?

 

[stoned]

Russ that's the problem with this whole thing - how is a world leader or any other dignitary more important than any other human being?

For effs sake its just a freaking pope people! He spread lies and what little good he did cancels out with overall evil he helped spread.

Edit: Besides, everyday people die and some of them have a more dignitary life than any pope combined - yet nobody mentions them.

You started too early demonizing Pope and Catholic church, let's wait 'till they bury him.

 

[PerennialII]

Russ that's the problem with this whole thing - how is a world leader or any other dignitary more important than any other human being?

For effs sake its just a freaking pope people! He spread lies and what little good he did cancels out with overall evil he helped spread.

Edit: Besides, everyday people die and some of them have a more dignitary life than any pope combined - yet nobody mentions them.

Am with a similar wavelength with you, but would still pass this discussion to another thread / somewhere else.

 

[cronxeh]

Well if its not a general discussion and move it elsewhere, then you would make some sort of an emphasis on it and add an even more value to the fact that pope died - which would negate the original purpose of saying that the pope's death is just as important as any other individual's

dont get me wrong - i mourn for his death as a human being, even though he lived an above average life span, but not as some kind of a religious figure

 

[Bladibla]

dont get me wrong - i mourn for his death as a human being, even though he lived an above average life span, but not as some kind of a religious figure

Fully agreed. Most of the people in the world should appreciate him as a human being. NOT as a major religious figure.

 

[klusener]

cronxeh just hits all the major points right in the eye, I definitely admire him as a person but his views caused so much devastation in the third-world countries, Africa and Asia, that will take so many years to atleast repaire these things.. The major point is AIDS, there are so many devoted Catholics in Africa and Asia, without contraceptives, the already high rate of AIDS has climbed exponentially.. So many people died just because of that one view, in India, it is up to the rest of us, we try to bargain with these people who blindly follow him without one thought to logic or practicality to use contraceptives to stop AIDS.. That said, I like him as a person..

 

[1123581321]

Russ that's the problem with this whole thing - how is a world leader or any other dignitary more important than any other human being?

For effs sake its just a freaking pope people! He spread lies and what little good he did cancels out with overall evil he helped spread.

Edit: Besides, everyday people die and some of them have a more dignitary life than any pope combined - yet nobody mentions them.

Wow, the guy died and your being a jerk about it. I don't really get pissed off that much, but you just did it. "spread evil"? explain to me how the hell he "spread evil"? true, people die all the time, but the pope did a lot of good. He was the leader of 2,000,000,000 catholics on this world, and he was not important? Just a pope? if you are not catholic, i can understand, but can't you quit being a jerk-hole and let the people who did appreciate him mourn him? hate to tell you, but you are not a world leader. i am not a world leader. no one really cares when we die, except for family and friends. i probably pissed a lot of folks off, but i don't care. this is a thread to honor the pope, go start your own f'n thread to make fun of him, don't ruin this one.
I feel better now.

Fibonacci

Edit: sorry for ranting, but had to do it. don't mean to offend anyone but cronexeh.

 

[cronxeh]

im not offended - i actually feel sorry for you

edit: and if you think catholic church hasnt done bad things for the humanity at large - read other posts after mine

that being said.. i care about those 2 billion people you mentioned.. i hope someday they'll find the truth, and as for being a jerk and whatnot - i already said that i mourn his death as a human being, not as a leader of 2B+ people

 

[1123581321]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/aids/story/0,7369,1059068,00.html

Well this article alone is enough for JP2 to burn in hell for all eternity.

you have serious mental issues, in fact, when you die, you won't even go to hell because you will use the insanity arguement.
Burn in hell,
Fibonacci

 

[cronxeh]

Ill say hi to the pope from you

 

[SOS2008]

...jerk-hole

Edit: sorry for ranting, but had to do it. don't mean to offend anyone but cronexeh.

And I thought I was the great "insulter"...

 

[SOS2008]

you have serious mental issues, in fact, when you die, you won't even go to hell because you will use the insanity arguement.
Burn in hell,
Fibonacci

Check out the "Cosmology - limits of science thread"

 

[stoned]

were you brought catholic or hebrew Cronex ? just wondering.

 

[Danger]

He was the leader of 2,000,000,000 catholics on this world,

Of course, if it weren't for one of the truly insane policies of the church, there wouldn't be 2,000,000,000 Catholics.

 

[SOS2008]

I would agree with you, but I don't watch TV, but I'm sure If I did I'd agree with you.

The news media spends days on the OJ trial, and days on the Schiavo case, and days on the Pope's funeral. These things are news, but it does not mean all other events in the world suddenly stopped and can't be reported on as well. As for the Pope, he was fortunate to live a long and good life. All the people of the world can hope to be as fortunate.