RO/NF combination for fufural concentrating

  • Thread starter Thread starter sero2000
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Combination
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the design of a fufural (C5H4O2) production process, specifically exploring the feasibility of using reverse osmosis (RO) and nanofiltration (NF) as alternatives to traditional distillation methods for concentrating fufural and removing water after the reaction process. The focus is on reducing costs associated with steam usage in the purification stage.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant outlines a proposed process flow involving a reactor followed by NF and RO before distillation, aiming to reduce steam costs associated with vaporizing the water-fufural mixture.
  • Another participant references solubility data from Wikipedia, suggesting that the enthalpy required for water vaporization may not be the primary heat requirement, prompting a discussion on focusing on the reaction process instead.
  • A participant agrees with the idea of using RO/NF as an alternative to distillation, noting that the solubility of fufural in water is low, which could keep the pressures for RO manageable, provided that by-products do not interfere significantly.
  • One participant cites a study indicating that membrane processes can achieve over 92% rejection of fufural but also notes that acetic acid, a by-product, has a significant rejection rate, raising questions about the choice of membrane type.
  • Another participant suggests that while solution diffusion models might be interesting, they may not significantly aid in reducing distillation costs, highlighting concerns about potential fouling from solids in the feed mixture.
  • There is a question about whether actual measurements or experiments will be conducted, or if the project will rely solely on design assumptions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying opinions on the feasibility and effectiveness of using RO and NF in the fufural production process. While some support the idea as a viable alternative to distillation, others raise concerns about the impact of by-products and membrane selection, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention specific solubility values and rejection rates for fufural and acetic acid, but there are uncertainties regarding the interaction of by-products with the membrane processes and the potential for fouling. The discussion also reflects a lack of consensus on the best approach to take.

sero2000
Messages
27
Reaction score
0
Hi there,

My group is working on a final semester project that involves the design of a small fufural (C5H4O2) plant. Pretty much most commercial processes uses distillation after the reaction process and then it is further distilled to purify the fufural which results in a costly process

Feed-> Reactor -> Distillation -> Purify (Distillation, Liquid-liquid extraction ect)

We are looking into removal of the water after the reaction process to first concentrate the stream before sending it into purification stage where we will be using a distillation column. We are thinking of using the concentrates from the NF and RO processes and feeding it into the distillation column since the main thing that is affecting the cost is the large amount of steam needed to vaporise the water-fufural mixture that is present after the reaction process

Feed -> Reactor -> NF + RO -> Distillation

Does anyone who has any experience in membrane separation or fufural could give any advice on whether this is even feasible?

Im not sure if i posted in the correct section so i do apologize if i did so wrongly.
 
Last edited:
Engineering news on Phys.org
Bystander said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furfural
If the solubility stated in Wiki is correct, enthalpy required for water vaporization isn't going to be your big heat requirement.

hmm so you're suggesting we focus on the reaction process instead?
 
sero2000 said:
reaction process instead?
Not necessarily --- re-reading, you're proposing RO/NF as an alternative to "brute force" distillation. Yes, good idea. Solubility in water is ~ 1 molal, should keep pressures needed for RO manageable, IF the reaction/feed/by-products don't interfere too much or contribute too much other water soluble material.

Your project --- probably enough from the "peanut gallery." Update us if time allows.
 
Hmm i looked at a study that showed that concentration of furfural was done using membranes with rejection of furfural of over 92%. However, it also showed that acetic acid (by product) also was rejected at around 70%. And in another study when they increased the trans-membrane pressure the acetic acid retention was 15%

MW of acetic acid is around 60 while for furfural it's around 96. General RO porous membranes (from GE) that I looked at have around 100 Molecular weight cut off. In this case, do you think it is better that I use a non-porous membrane and look into solution diffusion models since the feed that is coming out of the reactor is expected to be 90% water, 6% furfural and 4% acids
 
sero2000 said:
solution diffusion models
Might be interesting, but probably not all that helpful as far as cutting distillation costs.
sero2000 said:
90% water, 6% furfural and 4% acids
... plus just enough solids to be a real fouling problem. Cross-flow vs. diffusion --- ?

Do you get to do any actual measurements/experiments, or is this "commit to design" and hope for the best?
 

Similar threads

Heat Exchanger Network Design
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
Dynamic Simulation After Feed Flow Reduction
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
Problems with Extractive Distillation of C4 to Get Butadiene
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
4K
Studying chemical engineering looking for some book recommendations.
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
Synhelion -- Using solar heliostat farms to create liquid fuels from Water Vapor and CO2
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
Solving a Large Steady-State System with ASPEN
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
What Is the White Powder from Ultrasonic Humidifiers and Is It Harmful?
  • · Replies 43 ·
2
Replies
43
Views
21K
Just curious about many things like hydrostatics
  • · Replies 28 ·
Replies
28
Views
4K
Mechanisms for Inhmogeneity in Earth's Crust
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
5K
Uranium conversion / reprocessing TRU isotopes
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K