Rod rotational inertia - axis at end of rod

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the rotational inertia of a rod with the rotational axis at one end, specifically addressing why the moment of inertia is expressed as 1/3 mR² instead of 1/2 mR². The conversation includes theoretical explanations, mathematical reasoning, and derivations related to the topic.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why the moment of inertia for a rod at its end is 1/3 mR² rather than 1/2 mR².
  • Another suggests using the parallel axis theorem to compute the moment of inertia for the rod based on its center of mass.
  • A participant expresses confusion about the relationship between the center of mass and the formula, noting the distance from the center to the end of the rod.
  • One participant clarifies that 1/2 mR² applies to a solid cylinder, while the moment of inertia for a rod about its center is 1/12 mL², leading to the calculation of 1/3 mL² when applying the parallel axis theorem.
  • Another participant proposes a method involving point masses to derive the moment of inertia, explaining the summation of squared distances and how it leads to the 1/3 factor, while acknowledging the complexity of the derivation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the initial confusion regarding the moment of inertia values and the application of the parallel axis theorem. There is no consensus on the clarity of the derivation methods presented, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to understand the moment of inertia for the rod.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference different formulas and methods without resolving the underlying assumptions about the shapes and their respective moments of inertia. The discussion includes varying levels of mathematical rigor and clarity.

destroyer130
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I want to ask why a rod's rotational inertia with rotational axis at its end is not
1/2 mR2 but 1/3 mR2?
 
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Try using the parallel axis theorem to compute the moment of inertia for the second case, given the first case.
 
Oh I mean in term of making sense? I am sorry for this dumb question. Like, the rod center of mass would be in the middle of the rod. The distance is R/2, there is "3" so I wonder how can there is formula 1/3 mR2
 
Where did you came up with 1/2 mR^2 in the first place, it is for the solid cylinder.

The rods moment of inertia about its center is 1/12 mL^2 (where L stands for length of the rod), I hope you agree with me here.
If we would like to calculate the moment of inertia of this same rod about an axis that goes through the one end of the rod we apply the parallel axis theorem:

where d stands for distance from the center of the rod to the end of the rod d = L/2.

1/12 mL^2 + md^2 = 1/12 mL^2 + m(L/2)^2 = 1/3 mL^2
 
amiras, now you need to explain the 1/12th for moment around center.

destroyer, imagine I replace the rod by N+1 point masses located at distance rn=n(R/N) from the end, where n runs from 0 to N. The mass of each is m=M/(N+1), of course, to give you total mass of M. Moment of inertia for a point mass is mrn². So we need to add these up.

[tex]I = \sum_{n=0}^{N} m r_n^2 = \frac{m R^2}{N^2} \sum_{n=0}^{N} n^2[/tex]

Sum of squares of consecutive integers is known as square pyramidal number.

[tex]\sum_{n=0}^{N} n^2 = \frac{2N^3 + 3N^2 + N}{6}[/tex]

Putting it all together.

[tex]I = MR^2 \frac{2N^3 + 3N^2 + N}{6 N^2 (N+1)}[/tex]

That looks ugly, but if N is large enough, only the N³ terms are important in that fraction. Since we want the rod to be broken into infinitely many point masses, the square and linear terms can be dropped. (In other words, take limit as N goes to infinity.)

[tex]I = MR^2 \frac{2N^3}{6N^3} = \frac{1}{3}MR^2[/tex]

This isn't the cleanest way to derive moment of inertia, and it gets even worse for more complex shapes, but it shows where the 1/3 comes from without any advanced mathematics.
 

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