Rotational Motion - Understanding the Idea

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding rotational motion, specifically the use of unit vectors in describing motion in polar coordinates versus Cartesian coordinates. Participants explore the implications of angular acceleration and the forces required for uniform circular motion.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the necessity of using the unit vector ##\vec θ## in the context of rotational motion, suggesting it may simplify calculations.
  • Another participant explains that using polar coordinates (##r## and ##θ##) simplifies the analysis of rotational motion compared to Cartesian coordinates, particularly in uniform circular motion.
  • There is a discussion about the relationship between tangential acceleration ##\vec {a_t}## and the forces required to maintain uniform circular motion, with one participant asserting that a tangential force is necessary if ##\vec {a_t}## is non-zero.
  • Participants clarify that the general formula for acceleration includes terms for both tangential and radial components, and that the presence of a non-zero angular acceleration implies the need for a corresponding force.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the utility of polar coordinates for simplifying rotational motion analysis, but there is some uncertainty regarding the necessity of tangential forces for uniform circular motion, as the discussion reflects differing interpretations of the conditions required for such motion.

Contextual Notes

The discussion does not resolve the conditions under which tangential forces are necessary, nor does it clarify the implications of angular acceleration in all scenarios of circular motion.

Arman777
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1- I am trying to understand the rotational motion and In most books there's ##\vec θ## unit vector which its, ##\vec θ=(-sinθ,cosθ)##
I can see that If ##\vec r## unit vector is,##\vec r=(cosθ,sinθ)## then ,

##\frac {d\vec r} {dt}=\vec θ##

Like calculating ##\vec v=\frac {d\vec r} {dt}=R.\frac {dθ} {dt}.\vec θ##

I don't understand why we use this ? Just to make things easier ?

2-And we know that ##\vec a=R∝\vec θ+Rw^2(-\vec r)##
here
##\vec {a_t}=R∝\vec θ## and ##\vec {a_r}=Rw^2(-\vec r)##

I know that If ##a_t## is zero then it becomes uniform circular motion.But In main equations there is an non-zero angular acceleration.So it means do we have to exert ##\vec F=m(-R∝\vec θ)## to create a uniform circular motion ?

Note:This is not a homework question so,I didnt ask there
 
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Arman777 said:
1- I am trying to understand the rotational motion and In most books there's ##\vec θ## unit vector which its, ##\vec θ=(-sinθ,cosθ)##
I can see that If ##\vec r## unit vector is,##\vec r=(cosθ,sinθ)## then ,

##\frac {d\vec r} {dt}=\vec θ##

Like calculating ##\vec v=\frac {d\vec r} {dt}=R.\frac {dθ} {dt}.\vec θ##

I don't understand why we use this ? Just to make things easier ?
In general yes. It simplifies rotational motion a lot. For instance, consider uniform circular motion. If you were to stick to ##x## and ##y## coordinates, they would be constantly changing and they become difficult to work with. They are best suited to translational motion because of this. If you use ##r## and ##\theta## coordinates you can immediately see that one derivative is zero, and that the other is simply the angular speed. The reason we use ##\vec \theta## is to give that speed a direction.

Arman777 said:
2-And we know that ##\vec a=R∝\vec θ+Rw^2(-\vec r)##
here
##\vec {a_t}=R∝\vec θ## and ##\vec {a_r}=Rw^2(-\vec r)##

I know that If ##a_t## is zero then it becomes uniform circular motion.But In main equations there is an non-zero angular acceleration.So it means do we have to exert ##\vec F=m(-R∝\vec θ)## to create a uniform circular motion ?

Note:This is not a homework question so,I didnt ask there
No we do need to apply such a force for uniform circular motion. The ##\vec {a_t}## has to be caused by a force. If there is no tangential force, then it is zero. The term appears in the formula because the formula is general, so it works for any value of ##\vec {a_t}##, including zero. You obtain the value of ##\vec {a_t}## from the value of ##\vec F_t##, not the other way round.
 
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Albertrichardf said:
In general yes. It simplifies rotational motion a lot. For instance, consider uniform circular motion. If you were to stick to ##x## and ##y## coordinates, they would be constantly changing and they become difficult to work with. They are best suited to translational motion because of this. If you use ##r## and ##\theta## coordinates you can immediately see that one derivative is zero, and that the other is simply the angular speed. The reason we use ##\vec \theta## is to give that speed a direction.No we do need to apply such a force for uniform circular motion. The ##\vec {a_t}## has to be caused by a force. If there is no tangential force, then it is zero. The term appears in the formula because the formula is general, so it works for any value of ##\vec {a_t}##, including zero. You obtain the value of ##\vec {a_t}## from the value of ##\vec F_t##, not the other way round.

I understand now.Thanks
 
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