Russian rocket accident releases radiation

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A Russian rocket explosion at the Nyonoksa naval test site has resulted in radiation release and the deaths of five individuals. The radiation levels spiked to 2 microsieverts per hour for about 30 minutes before returning to normal, raising concerns about the nature of the accident, which may involve a nuclear-powered cruise missile. Speculation suggests that the incident could be linked to a small nuclear reactor used in missile technology, though the exact cause remains unclear. The nearby White Sea has been closed off, and discussions focus on the potential implications for future missile tests and the safety of the surrounding area. The situation highlights ongoing concerns regarding nuclear technology and its risks in military applications.
  • #61
geoelectronics said:
Is this the same incident?
No, two different events.

5 Aug 2019. Ammunition and explosives storage, Lat 56.173310° Long 90.399937°. Kamenka, 10 km south of Achinsk. No radiation. Many pictures, some wrongly attributed. When google Earth updates that area, the storage facility will look different.

8 Aug 2019. Platform in Dvinskiy Gulf, White Sea. No pictures or details available. 5 people reported dead. Radiation released. It appears that Nyonoksa was the closest military test facility to the accident, but Nyonoksa was not involved in the trials, nor could it have provided access to the platform. The Nyonoksa reference appears to be Russian misinformation.
 
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  • #62
Baluncore said:
No, two different events.

5 Aug 2019. Ammunition and explosives storage, Lat 56.173310° Long 90.399937°. Kamenka, 10 km south of Achinsk. No radiation. Many pictures, some wrongly attributed. When google Earth updates that area, the storage facility will look different.

8 Aug 2019. Platform in Dvinskiy Gulf, White Sea. No pictures or details available. 5 people reported dead. Radiation released. It appears that Nyonoksa was the closest military test facility to the accident, but Nyonoksa was not involved in the trials, nor could it have provided access to the platform. The Nyonoksa reference appears to be Russian misinformation.
Thanks for clarification.

Geo
 
  • #63
yup that link was a bit fake news, they write about one story and put a video from a totally different one and unrelated , I assume to make the whole story sensational.
They do that with ordinary things like car crashes everyday, putting a deadly wreck when writing about a traffic bump.
 
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  • #64
Russian President Vladimir Putin speaks during a joint news conference with Finnish President Sauli Niinisto in the Presidental Palace in Helsinki, Finland, August 21, 2019
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...red-during-weapons-systems-test-idUSKCN1VB1YC
Apparently Putin acknowledged that "a deadly blast at a military site in northern Russia earlier this month had taken place during the testing of what he called promising new weapons systems." Of course, he will not elaborate on the system, but simply minimize the consequences, especially concerning the release of radioactive substances.
 
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  • #66
mfb said:
Probably two explosions two hours apart
Oh wow. Now we have a real mystery. If a missile exploded in the air, what was the earlier explosion? If the first explosion was the missile, what was still in the air an hour later?

The Russians are good at concealment, but most of their secrets leak out eventually.
 
  • #67
@anorlunda , oh trust me most of their secrets are lost to history and no one is talking about them, I know because only the ones who live "here" and have had a common past in the USSR know, the ones that leak are the really nefarious ones, sadly so many atrocities are still unknown.

This on the bright side was just a technical mishap and both Russians and Americans as well as others have had plenty of them, I guess trying to conceal them is a standard practice. The real crimes are the ones against humanity and sadly on this side of the pond we have had too many.as for the thread topic, well wasn't it the case that these nuclear ramjets need to get to some minimum airspeed first in order to generate a strong enough thrust?because I can't imagine how one could start a rocket that has no expanding hot gasses but simply a very hot heat exchanger sitting in ambient air, in that case maybe the chemical propellant that was used to give the rocket it's firs boost exploded when it launched and some of the rocket got away and then exploded in air together with the secondary nuclear engine, or is this completely wrong?

PS. quite frankly with as little info as we have all we can do is speculate
 
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  • #68
anorlunda said:
If a missile exploded in the air, what was the earlier explosion?
... and how got the staff contaminated?

artis said:
maybe the chemical propellant that was used to give the rocket it's firs boost exploded when it launched and some of the rocket got away and then exploded in air together with the secondary nuclear engine...
I had a similar speculation a bit back here, but the time difference seems to be two hours (!). At any relevant flight speed that's quite a big distance.
 
  • #69
gleem said:
There is even a report that workers in the hospital that treated survivors were not told that the patients were contaminated.
berkeman said:
If true, that is just plain wrong, IMO. :mad:
Looks like the Russians are going back to their old playbook. When all else fails, make up something - no matter how ridiculous. :oldeyes:
Russian officials blame cesium exposure on 'Fukushima crabs'
Despite the doctor's exposure to patients from an area where a short-term radiation spike was recorded, the local health ministry blamed the trace amounts of the isotope on bad seafood.

"Cesium-137... has the feature of accumulating in fish, mushrooms, lichens, algae," the statement posted on the local government's website reads. "With a certain degree of probability, we can assume that this element got into the human body through the products of food."
 
  • #70
It is very difficult to tie these two accidents together, especially given the Norwegian assessment that the second explosion was airborne. The claim that the radioactivity was detected after the second explosion is unhelpful. There is quite a distance between the test site and the Norwegian sensors, so we would need wind speeds and direction to give some plausible time line.
We know at least 5 senior researchers were killed and that their bodies were contaminated. That indicates a ground based accident, perhaps a reactor burping because a pipe gave way. Whether a reactor with that kind of damage could still power a flight vehicle for a couple of hours is doubtful, but not impossible, as Russia's military greatly prefers robust and overdesigned gear. It is unlikely that the initial failure was just a booster issue, because of the contamination of the victims. However, it is also difficult to understand why a leak in metal cooled reactor would cause an explosion sufficient to contaminate and blow overboard the observers.
 
  • #71
etudiant said:
There is quite a distance between the test site and the Norwegian sensors, so we would need wind speeds and direction to give some plausible time line.
That's what they did, I guess. Otherwise the statement would be silly.

No matter where radiation was released the two explosions are strange. If a large explosion happens you stop testing unless you are absolutely sure the explosion has nothing to do with the test. Two independent accidents on the same day at the same place? Sounds unlikely. Maybe the second explosion was caused by an attempt to contain the damage of the first one.
 
  • #72
Does anyone have wind data for the White Sea for the 8 August, and for the region since then?

There is some confusion over the light wind direction at the time. Was it blowing south, a south-wind or a southerly wind? From the delayed and then canceled order to evacuate Nyonoksa I got the feeling that, at the time of the accident the wind at the test platform was blowing towards the NW, away from Nyonoksa and Severodvinsk. An expected wind change did not occur, or radiation products did not continue to be released, so the evacuation was cancelled.

My current hypothesis is that a static test on a platform in the middle of Dvinskiy Gulf continued normally for about two hours. The four times increase in gamma background over Severodvinsk was generated by the reactor, unshielded, (apart from the molten lead alloy coolant that screened some gamma radiation). I guess the radiation monitors in Severodvinsk that did not register the increase were screened by local topography from the the radiation source low on the NW horizon.
A critical explosion ended the experiment. It generated the burst of over 16 times normal background in Severodvinsk. It destroyed the operator / observer shelter on the platform.

That is the simplest explanation I can see for the radiation levels monitored, with the two distinct phases of operation, or modes of release, ending in one physical explosion due to a reactor accident.
 
  • #73
Air is a great shield against gamma radiation over distances of kilometers, the radiation length is about 300 meters. Direct radiation shouldn't be relevant anywhere outside the test site, it is all about released radioactive materials.
 
  • #74
Now this morning I thought about something I think hasn't been mentioned here.
Any missile ever that has taken off from land or sea has gone somewhere right? So if you launch a missile you also have to recover it or let it fall down as is usually done when testing new missiles with the latest exceptions of Falcon etc where they try to reuse it to increase it's commercial viability.
Now suppose you have a chemically launched nuclear in flight powered ramjet type of a missile , so you launch the missile and what then? You essentially have a speeding nuclear "dirty bomb" even without a warhead in place that flies at mach 2 or greater speeds , where do you land such a test missile??
You can't let it crash in international waters or neighboring countries for the risk of giving away your secrets and pollution and an international scandal, so you crash it somewhere silent and remote in your own territory and which country in the world has the biggest luxury of having a place like that... Russia ofcourse.

You see where I am going with this?

Now I will try to give some links later, but right now here is my thinking.
The Russians already have a working chemically launched nuclear missile but they are tweaking it and probably testing a good enough recovery mechanism for the rocket. Because having a rocket like this also requires some way of recovering it if used in peacetime.

Also what strikes as odd is the place of test because the Russians have even more remote areas like the famous "Nowaya Zemlya" or "New Land" which is a large very far north located land mass that is virtually empty of humans or other "intruders" , also the place where they tested the largest thermonuclear bomb ever the "Tsar" bomb.
It has been reported that they have made some tests of this same 9M730 missile there and close by among other things have been a special nuclear waste and radiology ship named "Serebryanka"

Now guess what? I found on some Russian blogs that at the latest spot in the Dvinsky gulf the same ship has been spotted hours before reports of any explosion took place. Now thinking logically the Russian scientists are among the best in the world surely they would take some backup precautions while testing a nuclear powered missile.
PS. a flashback they would have also told the operators of the RBMK units of how dangerously unsafe they were when used in a low power range but they were not allowed to do so.

Also someone there posted a link to a police escort of some 3 and more ambulances with drivers in full bio-suits and the cars themselves wrapped in plastic film. Now this doesn't seem like an accident to me but a planned emergency in case the rocket dumping goes wrong.
So here is what I think they did, another test fire of the rocket, but as in all other cases they needed a safe spot where to dump the rocket after flight tests were done, probably something went wrong in the trajectory of the rocket and they now had a nuclear missile heading for civillian territory so they activated the emergency self destruct function of the missile and it blew up in mid air near the towns where the short spike in radiation was noticed. (I suppose they have such controls built in such a rocket as it would only seem logical)
I think they probably would have wanted to dump the rocket in sea originally and do it in a controlled fashion and then the specialists could pick up the remains (why the special purpose ship Serebryanka was there)
but as they blew it up the remains of it crashed near the platform (not sure what it's purpose was) and in the result some people were killed.
As @mfb and others said here earlier the only radiation that could travel far enough from source for a short time is gamma, so maybe the gamma background was elevated because of the disintegration of the rocket some 40km from the shore , as the fragments fell into sea the gamma background dropped as the source of radiation was now not only far away but mostly underwater or covered.Surely without any normal information this is just speculation but to me it seems highly probable.
 
  • #75
The information about the vessel "Serebryanka" is very scarce , the only thing know about it is that it belongs or has to do with the Russian official state owned nuclear energy company Rosatom's nuclear ship fleet, as most things in Russia they serve dual purposes , a civilian one and a clandestine military one, such is also Rosatom as it operates both civilian power reactors and arctic ice-breakers as well as takes part in military drills such as this one.

It is called a "nuclear fuel carrier" but reportedly has also carried radioactive waste and contaminants from secret military experiments that involve nuclear materials like the tests of the 9M730 missile.
No surprise this ship was spotted near this latest test site.
 
  • #76
Baluncore said:
There is some confusion over the light wind direction at the time. Was it blowing south, a south-wind or a southerly wind? From the delayed and then canceled order to evacuate Nyonoksa I got the feeling that, at the time of the accident the wind at the test platform was blowing towards the NW, away from Nyonoksa and Severodvinsk. An expected wind change did not occur, or radiation products did not continue to be released, so the evacuation was cancelled.

The wind may have been blowing eastward, and possibly NE to SE. I went looking for some archive wind data, but it's not easy to find. I did find some data on the jet stream, but it only goes as far as Finland.

http://virga.sfsu.edu/archive/jetstream/jetstream_atl/big/1908/19080812_jetstream_atl_anal.gifhttp://virga.sfsu.edu/archive/jetstream/jetstream_atl/big/1908/
Apparently, satellites image the atmosphere, and there are archives of wind/cloud motion over much of the earth. Ostensibly, there is satellite imagery from UK, Norway, Sweden, and/or Finland, and perhaps Germany. I have seen satellite imagery from NOAA, but I can't find the specific satellite at present.

On August 8/9, there was a low pressure system over Sweden and Finland, so if the pressure was greater over White Sea, then the winds would probably blow westward or to SW.
 
  • #77
Just a reminder the specification for wind direction is the direction of origin. So a north wind is blowing south, and east wind is blowing to the west.
 
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  • #78
Western media report that a Russian agency, Rosgidromet, has reported finding several radioactive isotopes in samples it took following a recent accident at a northern military base during a weapons test.
Rosgidromet said a cloud of inert radioactive gases formed as a result of a decay of the isotopes and was the cause of the brief spike in radiation in Severodvinsk.

The isotopes were Strontium-91, Barium-139, Barium-140, and Lanthanum-140, which have half-lives of 9.3 hours, 83 minutes, 12.8 days, and 40 hours respectively, it said.
From https://www.rferl.org/a/russian-wea...e-isotopes-found-after-accident/30129439.html

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/russia...isotopes-government-reveals-today-2019-08-26/
https://www.foxnews.com/world/russia-nuclear-missile-explosion-radioactive-isotopes-test-samples.amp
 
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  • #79
Rosgidromet is the Russian meteorological bureau.

Put yourself in the position of having to test a nuclear powered jet cruise missile and a nuclear powered torpedo. The submarine needed to launch the torpedo is not available yet so you need test facilities. I expect a nuclear powered missile would initially be tested on a static stand with a modified turbojet engine to provide the ram airflow. The combined thrust would require the test rig be fixed.

We can see with Google Earth (6/23/2010 attached), increased activity in the Severodvinsk shipyards during 2010 and 2011. A jack up platform is being modified. Wind the clock back to see (in front of the unrelated refit of the aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov), a wide floating platform being progressively assembled from modular units. The floating platform outer edge has a white glacis plate, with cut corners. Judging by the length of the shadows you can see the superstructure on the floating platform is higher than the deck of the aircraft carrier. The middle section was assembled first, covered with a central structure.

I think the jack up platform was being modified for testing the 9M730 Burevestnik cruise missile, and became the site of the recent explosion. I think the floating platform is the accommodation and facilities for testing the sister project, the Poseidon nuclear powered torpedo and the launch system.

Where are those platforms now? My best guess is based on marine navigation charts that show three special purpose buoys located at 65.225135°, 38.814129°. That is out in the middle of the Dvinskiy Gulf, White Sea, an area not imaged by Google Earth. That area is ideal for testing both of those weapons systems.
 

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  • #81
Well this (if true) would confirm my previous speculation that Russians already have a flying 9M730 cruise missile and have flown this missile multiple times before only in different locations (Novaya zemlya) , so this time they launched the missile as usual and something (unknown reason at this point) caused it to explode in mid air or as it was being dumped int he ocean/sea. After all test missiles just like other ones need to land somewhere eventually.
So they probably then went on to the recovery of the missile which is the reason why the special radiological ship Serebryanka was there.
Again what happened exactly after they tried to recover it is again an unknown at this point.
 
  • #82
Ship tracking shows SEREBRYANKA in Murmansk, not in the White Sea.
Last movement reported was cryptic and short;
MMK ATD : 2019-08-30 08:57 LT (UTC+3)
KYT ETA : 2019-08-30 11:00 LT (UTC)
 
  • #83
Well I know we are in the age of information but I don't think that you can track the movement of Russian military hardware from a typical end user accessible internet site that easily. The information could be wrong.
By this I am not saying that it was definitely Serebryanka , maybe it was some other specialized ship they have , but one is clear they had to have some marine equipment there because they intentionally dumped the rocket after flight into water.

I would think spy agencies like CIA and Mossad etc know more about what happened but it seems this is none of our business so far given how little has been made public about the incident.
 
  • #84
Here is a more detailed report, similar to what @mfb posted.
They mention that:
  • there were two explosions: one on board the ship that was retrieving the missile from the bottom and one after that involving the item being retrieved
  • a cause and effect relationship is implied between the two explosions: the ship board explosion disrupted the retrieval, which in turn is hypothesized to have caused a control rod to fall out of the reactor core, leading to a fissile "event".
  • a column of water raising from the ocean was seen by some fisherman near the presumed retrieval craft.
  • locals told to stay away from flotsam that might wash ashore.
 
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  • #85
Ok, let's assume the missile flies, they test it several times this time in this region, but according to the article it happened some time earlier not this august, ok fine. So they dump the missile in the sea at the end and then go after it. Even though why can't they use a parachute or something like that? Maybe they dump it into sea because dumping it on land would pose the risk of destruction and contamination.Maybe someone more informed about nuclear maths here could elaborate, if the explosion was indeed caused by the missile reactor (seems most likely) then could it have been as strong as the few assumed eyewitnesses say?
They probably use highly enriched U for the reactor much like in the small research reactors (90 something %)
So if the reactor design is such that it can keep itself together under high pressures for long enough in the event of criticality it could blast off much like a small A bomb right?PS. the article also says that it could be a warhead but I highly doubt that as why would they needed to dump a warhead in the sea in the first place as I assume in testing ranges for missiles they don't equip them with actual bombs, the bombs are tested elsewhere on their own.

Another interesting moment is if the missile exploded due to a nearby explosion disrupting the reactor in the missile then what could have been there on a recovery platform that can explode with such force.
 
  • #86
A nuclear reactor won't become prompt critical for any relevant amount of time. It might be able to explode, but only with energies of the order of a chemical explosion at most.
artis said:
So they dump the missile in the sea at the end and then go after it. Even though why can't they use a parachute or something like that?
Maybe they did?
 
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  • #87
The picture at the head of the link in post #84, shows a damaged container on a platform. One end of the container has been destroyed by a relatively small explosion, less than 100 kg TNT equivalent. The pictures in that article appears to come from the shore just north of the Nyonoksa test site. I see no evidence that they have been faked.
Lat: 64.654958° Long: 39.155973°

The closest Nyonoksa launch pad near there had a large tower removed and has a new shed with what appears to be a sliding cover. Again there are also a couple of blue shipping containers. Maybe that is now the launch site for the cruise missile. It seems to be aimed to the west, over land.
Lat: 64.651221° Long: 39.173062°
It is only 2.5 km from Nyonoksa village.
 
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  • #88
Well given the platform haven't sunk and seem only partly damaged I would also agree that indeed maybe the reactor went prompt and caused a small scale explosion. The height of the water column reported by the fisherman are probably exaggerated if not entirely false and there is no realistic way of confirming most of the information presented in the link anyway so I'll assume that the platforms are real and some explosion happened near them.
I wonder apart from a reactor going critical what else could explode on a recovery platform like that, I doubt they bring extra explosive/flammable substances with them just for fun.

such a nuclear missile would need probably a chemical startup fuel, I wonder what kind of fuel they use for that because in the past Soviets used hypergolic rocket fuels in a lot of their missiles.
 
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  • #89
artis said:
Ok, let's assume the missile flies, they test it several times this time in this region,
My assumption would be that such a cruise missile is not reusable. So tested several missiles, but not several tests with the same missile.

artis said:
such a nuclear missile would need probably a chemical startup fuel, I wonder what kind of fuel they use for that because in the past Soviets used hypergolic rocket fuels in a lot of their missiles.
In today's world, wouldn't it make more sense to use solid boosters analogous to NATO's JATO? It would also make sense to jettison the startup stage as soon as it was spent.

1567433882024.png
 
  • #90
anorlunda said:
My assumption would be that such a cruise missile is not reusable. So tested several missiles, but not several tests with the same missile.
That appears to be the case as there seems to be no direct or simple way of returning missiles from the recovery platform to the launch site.

Recovery of test units for material diagnosis, reactor material salvage and cleanup is necessary. The planned landing zone must be in the water close to the launch site and control centre, or the recovery platforms would not have been beached nearby.

I expect recovery and salvage is managed through Severodvinsk.