Scalar Potentials and Electromagnetic Current

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation of scalar potentials, charge density, and electromagnetic current for a dipole and a solenoid, with a specific focus on a copper solenoid. Participants explore various approaches to electromagnetic theory, including Lorenz invariant equations and magnetic moments, while also addressing the complexity of Earth's magnetic field.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks assistance in deriving scalar potential (phi), charge density (rho), and 4-electromagnetic current (J) for a copper solenoid, emphasizing that this is for personal use and not a homework problem.
  • Another participant questions the necessity of solving everything in terms of Lorenz invariant equations, suggesting that the magnetic field of a dipole can be derived from its magnetic potential and that the field from a solenoid can be found using the Biot-Savart law.
  • Several participants discuss the magnetic fields of the Earth, noting that they can be calculated using the magnetic moment, which is oriented along the z-axis relative to the x-plane of the equator. They inquire about the magnitude of this magnetic moment and its applicability to other planets and the sun.
  • One participant challenges the idea that the Earth's magnetic field can be approximated as a simple dipole, stating that it is more complex and does not match that of a simple dipole even when external influences are ignored.
  • Another participant mentions the Gaussian model of Earth as a better approximation but acknowledges its complexity and asks if there are other mathematical models that could provide better approximations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the best methods to derive electromagnetic properties and the complexity of Earth's magnetic field. There is no consensus on the most effective approach or model for these calculations.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the limitations of various models and the challenges in formulating accurate representations of magnetic fields, particularly for Earth and other celestial bodies. The discussion reflects the dependence on specific assumptions and the unresolved nature of certain mathematical steps.

Philosophaie
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For a Dipole and a Torad (or a Solenoid) I need to find the scalar Potential,phi, Charge Density,rho, and then 4-Electromagnetic Current,J(rho*c,j) where A and J are 4-vectors and a and j are 3-vectors.

-grad^2(phi) + 1/c^2*d/dt(phi) = rho/epsillon0

where grad(A(phi/c,a)) = -1/c^2*d/dt(phi)

-grad^2(A(phi/c,a)) + 1/c^2*d/dt(A(phi/c,a)) = mic0*J(rho*c,j)

I need a little help deriving rho, phi and J for a copper solenoid of diameter, d.
This is not a homework problem this is for my personal use.
 
Last edited:
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Is there any reason you want to solve everything in terms of Lorenz invariant equations? The 3-magnetic field of a dipole can be found by looking at the magnetic potenial ##\mathbf{A}## of a dipole and the field from a solenoid can be found using the Biot-Savart law.
 
The magnetic fields of the Earth (Neglecting the Sun Fields, Solar Wind, etc.) can be calculated by using the magnetic moment. The magnetic moment is located on the z-axis relative to the x- plane of the equator. What is the magnitude of this magnetic moment so the others can be calculated? Also could this be calcated for the other planets and the sun (neglecting its periodic nature).
 
Philosophaie said:
The magnetic fields of the Earth (Neglecting the Sun Fields, Solar Wind, etc.) can be calculated by using the magnetic moment. The magnetic moment is located on the z-axis relative to the x- plane of the equator. What is the magnitude of this magnetic moment so the others can be calculated? Also could this be calcated for the other planets and the sun (neglecting its periodic nature).
Not quite. The magnetic field around the Earth and other planets is rather complicated and does not match that of a simple dipole even when ignoring external influences. Here are some magnetic maps showing different elements of the Earth's magnetic field.
https://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomag/WMM/image.shtml
 
The Gaussian model of Earth give a better approximation but is very difficult to formulate. Are there other mathematical models to give better approxs?
 

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