Science Fair Project: Diffusing Water Through a Magnet

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a proposed science fair project involving the diffusion of water through a magnetically influenced system. Participants explore the feasibility of using a negatively charged magnet to filter out negatively charged solutes from water, while also addressing the implications of entropy and energy conservation in the context of the experiment.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes a setup with two containers separated by a selectively permeable membrane, predicting that a negatively charged magnet will filter out negative solutes as water diffuses.
  • Another participant points out the impossibility of a perpetual motion machine, suggesting that a sketch would clarify the proposed mechanism.
  • A question is raised regarding the terminology of "negatively charged solute" and whether a positive magnet would be more appropriate for filtering.
  • Participants inquire about the nature of ferrofluid and its interaction with magnets, as well as the potential effects of combining water with solid bismuth on the diffusion process.
  • One participant notes that energy loss in the form of heat and sound would prevent the creation of a constant flow of energy.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express skepticism about the feasibility of the proposed experiment, particularly regarding the concept of perpetual motion and the effectiveness of the magnet in filtering. There is no consensus on the correct approach or terminology, and multiple competing views remain regarding the mechanisms involved.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not fully defined terms such as "negatively charged solute" or clarified the implications of using specific materials like ferrofluid or bismuth in the experiment. There are unresolved questions about the physical interactions at play and the assumptions underlying the proposed mechanisms.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to students and educators involved in science fair projects, particularly those exploring concepts of diffusion, magnetism, and energy conservation in experimental setups.

mfeneley
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Two containers are connected, divided by a selectively permeable membrane. The continer on the left contains pure water. The container on the right contains water and a negatively charged solute. The container on the right is angeled vertically so that when the water diffuses across the membrane the water level will rise. At the top of the container is a magnet which is also negatively charged. I am predicting that the magnet will filter the negative molecule out of the water as it rises. However, I suspect their will be an issue concerning entropy. Anyway, if all goes to plan the water that was purified by the magnet will leave the container through a spillway. The kinetic energy from the falling water will be harnesed by a wheel. After the energy is harnesed the water is redirected back into the the container with the pure water. Hypothetically this creates a constant flow of energy which is impossible. Whats wrong with this? Please critique and give some ideas on how to improve the experiment. My written explanation may be hard to understand and I am going to try and insert a picture to help.
 
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mfeneley said:
Two containers are connected, divided by a selectively permeable membrane. The continer on the left contains pure water. The container on the right contains water and a negatively charged solute. The container on the right is angeled vertically so that when the water diffuses across the membrane the water level will rise. At the top of the container is a magnet which is also negatively charged. I am predicting that the magnet will filter the negative molecule out of the water as it rises. However, I suspect their will be an issue concerning entropy. Anyway, if all goes to plan the water that was purified by the magnet will leave the container through a spillway. The kinetic energy from the falling water will be harnesed by a wheel. After the energy is harnesed the water is redirected back into the the container with the pure water. Hypothetically this creates a constant flow of energy which is impossible. Whats wrong with this? Please critique and give some ideas on how to improve the experiment. My written explanation may be hard to understand and I am going to try and insert a picture to help.

As you suspect, it is not possible for the perpetual motion machine to run. Yes, if you could post a sketch, that would help us point out the problem.
 
A picture would help. Also, you said a negatively charged magnet will filter out the negative molecules. Did you mean a positive magnet?
 
What is a "negatively charged solute"?

--
 
How do I put a picture up?
 
mfeneley said:
How do I put a picture up?

If you have a picture on Photoshack or other hosting website, you can link to it here. Or you can attach PDF or JPG files in the Reply dialog page.
 
Quick question before I put my picture up. Is ferrofluid repelled by a magnet? If it is can it be mixed in water?
 
Forget that. Would water combined with solid bismouth cause pure water to pass through a selectively permeable membrane.
 
But energy is loss in the form of heat and sound. So no it won't create a constant flow.
 

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