Second order system rise time question

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a homework problem involving a second-order system modeled by the differential equation y'' + 2y' + 4y = u(t). Participants are exploring how to determine the time at which the system reaches 75%, 90%, and 95% of its final value, focusing on methods of solving the equation and the challenges involved.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses uncertainty about how to approach the problem, noting difficulties in isolating the expression for time from the solution of the differential equation.
  • Another participant suggests solving the ordinary differential equation (ODE) conventionally or using Laplace transforms, but acknowledges that it may lead to a complex transcendental equation for t(y).
  • A different participant indicates a preference for solving the problem without computational tools like MATLAB, citing the complexity of the equation due to the coupling of exponential, sine, and cosine terms.
  • One participant proposes that the problem might be solvable by reading values off a normalized graph, implying a potential alternative approach to finding the rise times.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not appear to reach a consensus on the best method to solve the problem, with multiple competing views on how to approach the solution and the feasibility of manual calculations versus graphical methods.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the complexity of the equation and the potential for approximations, as well as the challenges in isolating time from the solution. There are unresolved mathematical steps and assumptions regarding the methods suggested.

Who May Find This Useful

Students working on differential equations, particularly in the context of control systems or dynamics, may find this discussion relevant.

berdan
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Homework Statement



The question is such :
System is modeled as : y''+2y'+4y=u(t)
find the time at which the system goes up 75,90,95 % of its final value.

Homework Equations


The Attempt at a Solution



I have no idea how to touch that,I tried to find the source of the regular rise time (from 10 to 90%),and didn't got it.How the hell do I even start?It looks impossible to isolate expression for time,from PE solution . Also,from the answers in the book,the answers are approximations (t for 75% for example is ~0.9sec).

Thanks in advance.
 
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Solve the ODE for y(t) conventionally or use Laplace transforms.

EDIT: looks like an ugly transcendental equation to get t(y) though. Get out the old Excel spreadsheet!
 
Last edited:
Yea,that is the problem,I wanted to know how to do it without any help of mathlab and such,but it looks like overly nasty equation to solve manually (it has exponent of time coupled with sin and cosine terms)
anyway,thanks.
 
Maybe they just want you to read it off a normalized graph?
 

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