How to Derive Differential Equations for a Second Order System?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around deriving differential equations for a second order system involving masses, springs, and dampers. Participants explore the formulation of these equations based on forces acting on the masses, including potential energy from springs and damping forces.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents an initial attempt to derive the differential equations, referencing the potential energy of a spring and the dissipation due to a damper.
  • Another participant emphasizes the importance of correctly applying the equation of motion, ##\Sigma F = ma##, and suggests careful attention to the signs of the forces involved.
  • A participant clarifies their notation, indicating that the forces from the spring and damper act on mass m1 and oppose its motion.
  • There is a suggestion that the equation for mass m1 should be expressed in a specific form, indicating a preference for clarity in the representation of the differential equation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the correct formulation of the differential equations and the notation used. There is no consensus on the final form of the equations or the approach to deriving them.

Contextual Notes

Participants note issues with notation and the importance of following forum guidelines, indicating that clarity and adherence to conventions are significant in this discussion.

MarkD88
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I have attached an image of a question I am trying to do, I want to find the differential equations that describe the second order system in the image.

I know for a spring, potential energy = 1/2.K.x (where k is the spring constant, and x is the distance the spring is stretched).

I know that damper dissipation is = 1/2.B.(dx/dt) (where B is the damping constant and dx/dt is the rate of change of position with respect to time).

My solution:

I try to build a free body diagram for each mass on its own:

I have showed a snapshot of my attempt for the D.E. describing the motion of m1.

If any of you guys could tell me if I am correct or you have a handy way of doing these types of questions please feel free to respond.

Thank you
 

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Hello Mark, welcome to PF :smile: !

For some reason the template has disappeared. Pity (*). The relevant equation is ##\Sigma F = ma##. So you want to sort out the signs a little more carefully (of the forces; ##-k## is not a force, nor is ##-B## ).(*) Its use is mandatory in PF, for very good reasons; see the guidelines.
 
Hi BvU,

Apologies about the template, I will not post without a template again.

My notation there was a little careless, I did not mean to label K and B as forces, I was trying to imply that there is a force acting on mass m1 due to both the spring and the damper.

Spring: k.x1
Damper: B.(x2dot-x1dot)

And that these two forces oppose the motion of mass m1 from left to right.
 
And that these two forces oppose the motion of mass m1 from left to right
is good. And when you state that, you should also write something like ##m_1\ddot x_1 = -kx_1## and not e.g. ##m_1\ddot x_1 -kx_1 = 0 ## :rolleyes:
 

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