Series Solutions to Differential Equations | Initial Conditions at x=1

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around solving a differential equation using series solutions, specifically focusing on initial conditions set at x=1. Participants are exploring how to express the solution as a power series centered at this point and are attempting to derive coefficients based on the given initial conditions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Problem interpretation, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss centering the solution at x=1 and express uncertainty about the implications of initial conditions on the coefficients of the series. There are attempts to derive higher-order derivatives and their corresponding coefficients, alongside questions about the correctness of their approaches. Some participants question how to find the series representation and the interval of convergence.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants sharing their attempts to derive coefficients and expressing confusion about the series representation. Some guidance has been offered regarding the need to find a general term for the series and to align terms from different series. However, there is no explicit consensus on the correct approach or solution yet.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working under the constraints of a homework assignment, which may limit the information they can use or the methods they can apply. There is an ongoing exploration of the assumptions related to the differential equation and the series representation.

TranscendArcu
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Homework Statement


Skjermbilde_2012_04_27_kl_4_18_03_PM.png


The Attempt at a Solution


My trouble is that I don't really understand how to begin this problem. I think I am supposed to center my solution at a value equal to the x given in my initial conditions. That is, choose my centering point as x = 1. Then, I would have a solution: y = \sum_{n=0}^{∞} a_n (x-1)^n = a_0 (x-1)^0 + a_1(x-1)^1 + .... Is this then supposed to imply that y(1) = 2 = a_0?

Is this the right beginning to the problem?
 
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TranscendArcu said:

Homework Statement


Skjermbilde_2012_04_27_kl_4_18_03_PM.png


The Attempt at a Solution


My trouble is that I don't really understand how to begin this problem. I think I am supposed to center my solution at a value equal to the x given in my initial conditions. That is, choose my centering point as x = 1. Then, I would have a solution: y = \sum_{n=0}^{∞} a_n (x-1)^n = a_0 (x-1)^0 + a_1(x-1)^1 + .... Is this then supposed to imply that y(1) = 2 = a_0?

Is this the right beginning to the problem?
Yes and yes.
 
so I have: y' = \sum_{n=1}^∞ a_n(n)(x-1)^{n-1}. Our initial condition gives y'(1) = 0, which in turn tells me that a_1 = 0.

From the original differential equation, I can rewrite the terms to give: y'' = xy' + y → y''(1) = (1)y'(1) + y(1) = (1)(0) + 2 = 2. This implies that a_2 = \frac{2}{2!}. Taking the derivative of the y'' equation I have:

y^{(3)} = y' + xy'' +y' → y^{(3)}(1) = y'(1) + (1)y''(1) +y'(1) = 0 + 2 + 0 = 2. This implies that a_3 = \frac{2}{3!}. Taking another derivative:

y^{(4)} = y'' + y'' + xy''' +y'' → y^{(4)}(1) = y''(1) + y''(1) + (1)y'''(1) +y''(1) = 2+2+2+2 = 8. This implies that a_4 = \frac{8}{4!}.

Is this supposed to be telling me that the first four terms are y = 2 + \frac{2x^2}{2!} + \frac{2x^3}{3!} + \frac{8x^4}{4!}?
 
I think I might need a hint for the second part of the question. How can I see the analytical properties of y?
 
TranscendArcu said:
so I have: y' = \sum_{n=1}^∞ a_n(n)(x-1)^{n-1}. Our initial condition gives y'(1) = 0, which in turn tells me that a_1 = 0.

From the original differential equation, I can rewrite the terms to give: y'' = xy' + y → y''(1) = (1)y'(1) + y(1) = (1)(0) + 2 = 2. This implies that a_2 = \frac{2}{2!}. Taking the derivative of the y'' equation I have:

y^{(3)} = y' + xy'' +y' → y^{(3)}(1) = y'(1) + (1)y''(1) +y'(1) = 0 + 2 + 0 = 2. This implies that a_3 = \frac{2}{3!}. Taking another derivative:

y^{(4)} = y'' + y'' + xy''' +y'' → y^{(4)}(1) = y''(1) + y''(1) + (1)y'''(1) +y''(1) = 2+2+2+2 = 8. This implies that a_4 = \frac{8}{4!}.

Is this supposed to be telling me that the first four terms are y = 2 + \frac{2x^2}{2!} + \frac{2x^3}{3!} + \frac{8x^4}{4!}?
No. Remember that you are finding a series in powers of (x - 1).
 
TranscendArcu said:
I think I might need a hint for the second part of the question. How can I see the analytical properties of y?
You need to find the series representation of y(x), and then use the usual theorems to determine the interval of convergence.

The assumption here is that
$$y(x) = \sum_{n = 0}^{\infty}a_n(x - 1)^n$$
and your DE is y'' - xy' - y = 0

Starting from your assumed solution, calculate y' and y'' and then calculate y'' - xy' - y, as a series. Since this sum is equal to zero, all of its terms must equal zero.
 
Mark44 said:
No. Remember that you are finding a series in powers of (x - 1).

Oh, yeah. I forgot. But I only think that changes all of the x coefficients in my series to (x-1) coefficients. My a_n do not change, right?
 
Mark44 said:
You need to find the series representation of y(x), and then use the usual theorems to determine the interval of convergence.

The assumption here is that
$$y(x) = \sum_{n = 0}^{\infty}a_n(x - 1)^n$$
and your DE is y'' - xy' - y = 0

Starting from your assumed solution, calculate y' and y'' and then calculate y'' - xy' - y, as a series. Since this sum is equal to zero, all of its terms must equal zero.

So you say I need to find the sigma representation of this series? That seems kind of tricky. Does it even follow an easily-recognized pattern? The 8 in the numerator of the (x-1)^4 term really throws things off for me.
 
TranscendArcu said:
So you say I need to find the sigma representation of this series? That seems kind of tricky.
That's how I would go about it. When I did problems like this I would expand each series (the ones for y, xy', and y'') and write the first few terms of each, plus the general term. The idea is to line up all the terms of the three series so that the exponents match up.

I haven't worked through this, but maybe you could do something like this:

y'' - xy' - y = 0 <==> y'' - (x - 1)y' + y' - y = 0

Just a thought - I don't know if it will be helpful.
TranscendArcu said:
Does it even follow an easily-recognized pattern? The 8 in the numerator of the (x-1)^4 term really throws things off for me.
 
  • #10
Mark44 said:
That's how I would go about it. When I did problems like this I would expand each series (the ones for y, xy', and y'') and write the first few terms of each, plus the general term. The idea is to line up all the terms of the three series so that the exponents match up.

I haven't worked through this, but maybe you could do something like this:

y'' - xy' - y = 0 <==> y'' - (x - 1)y' + y' - y = 0

Just a thought - I don't know if it will be helpful.

Right now my series is y = 2 + \frac{2(x-1)^2}{2!} +\frac{2(x-1)^3}{3!} + \frac{8(x-1)^4}{4!} + .... It looks like I can take a 2 out so let's do that y = 2(1 + \frac{(x-1)^2}{2!} +\frac{(x-1)^3}{3!} + \frac{4(x-1)^4}{4!} + ...). But, as I mentioned above, this doesn't seem to follow a pattern that I can easily see. Thus, when you tell me to write out the first few terms, I can do that easily enough; but when it comes to finding the general term you refer to, I hit a wall. And until I have the general terms, I don't see how I can apply the trick you suggest.

Once I have the general terms, I'll be able to shift the series/strip out terms to match up the exponents, and then apply the ratio test (I presume) to determine the interval of convergence.
 
  • #11
So after much effort, I determined that there was a recursion relationship of the form a_{n+2} = \frac{a_n + a_{n+1}}{n+2}. Unfortunately -- I haven't found this as useful as I thought I would. I can't find anything in this problem that allows me to find the interval of convergence.
 

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