- #91
Zero
LA, you're done for the night...hit the bleachers, ok!
I don't agree with Kat, but it is still a good question, one that needs to be answered.
News Should the Pledge of Allegiance Include Under God?
- Thread starter Nicool003
- Start date
Click For Summary
The discussion centers on the Pledge of Allegiance, particularly the phrase "under God," which was added in the 1950s and is seen by some as exclusionary to non-theistic beliefs. Proponents argue that the pledge has historical significance and should remain unchanged, while opponents view it as indoctrination that fails to respect the diversity of beliefs in America. Critics highlight that the pledge's original wording did not include references to God and argue for a more inclusive version that respects all citizens. The debate touches on broader themes of religious freedom, minority rights, and the implications of state endorsement of specific beliefs. Ultimately, the conversation reflects a deep divide over the intersection of patriotism and religious expression in American society.
LA, you're done for the night...hit the bleachers, ok!
I don't agree with Kat, but it is still a good question, one that needs to be answered.
- #92
LogicalAtheist
I absolutely don't understand her question one bit.
Furthermore, it's my duty as a teacher to disallow people to spread falsities to others.
- #93
Zero
You absolutely need to re-read the question...and it isn't a teacher's duty to do any more than teach! This is one good reason for the removal of religious speech from government workers, so no one has to interpret what their job is.
- #94
LogicalAtheist
Ha? I read it 3 times. It makes no sense.
Don't tell me to re-read it.
- #95
Zero
Should I tell you to re-learn reading then? YOU ARE DONE HERE!
Go be belligerant somewhere else, ok? In other words, if you have nothing else to contribute here, stop posting here. Any further off-topic posts will be deleted.
- #96
LogicalAtheist
*edited for being off-topic*
Last edited by a moderator:
- #97
LogicalAtheist
*edited for being off-topic*
- #98
LogicalAtheist
I read it, it makes no sense. It's not a proper sentence...
"5 year old Johnny and Suzy continue to say "under God" because mommy and daddy do..and it makes your atheist child uncomfortable..then what? "
whose atheist child?
what do you mean then what?
then what for who?
Whose kids are these?
Answer these and I'll attempt to speak on your rewritten question.
"5 year old Johnny and Suzy continue to say "under God" because mommy and daddy do..and it makes your atheist child uncomfortable..then what? "
whose atheist child?
what do you mean then what?
then what for who?
Whose kids are these?
Answer these and I'll attempt to speak on your rewritten question.
- #99
Zero
This isn't an English class, but I guess I can re-write it for you in proper sentences.
"5 year old Johnny and Suzy continue to say "under God", because their parents do. It makes an atheist child uncomfortable. What should the parents of the atheist child do? What should teh teacher and teh school do?"
Does that meet your approval?
- #100
LogicalAtheist
You aren't the one who asked the question. You aren't the one who I want to hear it from. I'll wait till Kat explains as I can see a few versions this question could take.
- #101
Dissident Dan
- 236
- 2
Well, then nothing. If their doing not is a kind manner, then they have the right to do that. It's not government-sponsored. Now, if they're doing it to taunt others, then that's something that should be reprimanded. Of course, it would be up to the teacher's discretion. I'm just giving my opinion on how I would handle it.
- #102
Zero
Yeah...well, say for instance that they say it together at the flag before school...not sponsored speech, they can do it. IF they have a Pledge reading in the classroom, and they shout out 'UNDER GOD', they can be disciplined for being disruptive.
- #103
LogicalAtheist
So, two kids say "under god" cuzz their parents taught them to.
1. Where are they saying this? When and where...
2. The assertion that an atheist child would be uncomfortable. If you're religious Kat, then perhaps you biasly added this.
Normally, it's religious children who are uncomfortable with any other children who do not share their exact religion. In my experience with atheist children (ages 6 to 14) they're very confident, and don't have a problem with religious people whatsoever.
But, if we were to assume an atheist child was uncomfortable, the answer is they should be conforted.
It's against the law for a public school teacher to assert a religion for the school.
But you failed to declare where and when this was being done. That's why I can't answer you, way to vague.
- #104
damgo
Whatever... who cares? It's completely a symbolic thing; just change it officially. Most people will switch over sooner or later, and if the 4th grade teacher at Robert E. Lee Elementary School in Hicksville, Mississippi wants to keep saying 'under God,' let him. 
- #105
LogicalAtheist
Originally posted by damgo
Whatever... who cares? It's completely a symbolic thing; just change it officially. Most people will switch over sooner or later, and if the 4th grade teacher at Robert E. Lee Elementary School in Hicksville, Mississippi wants to keep saying 'under God,' let him.
Let him break the law?
What if he wants to touch the children? That's factually only breaking the law. Only opinions say it's "right or wrong"?
Where do we stop from punishing people from breaking the law?
- #106
Zero
Logically, I can see your point. In the real world, however, a compromise will have to be reached. It will be a good few years before the situtaion normalizes itself.
- #107
LogicalAtheist
Not that I have a problem with breaking the law, I do it all the time. But little laws...
Also, I don't take the stance of removing under god cuzz it's 'wrong", just cuzz it's illegal.
So if our country changed the law so it was legal, then I have no factual basis, none really good anyways, that it "should" be removed.
ALso, I assert the claim (which is actually a premise for a much greater claim) that religion is anti-humanitarian, and thus spreading it is anti-humanitarian, thus making the spreader anti-humanitarian.
But I recognize the power of, power. And I understand that I'm not going to use emotions to fight claims.
I FEEL it's wrong, and hate people who do it, but I choose not to use those because they're not objective.
I asked earlier, does anyone know the supreme court status on this? they ruled to remove under god after the case, but then I heard some BS about all senators saying it was insane etc...
I say as an atheist "god bless supreme court judges"!
they rock our world!
Also, I don't take the stance of removing under god cuzz it's 'wrong", just cuzz it's illegal.
So if our country changed the law so it was legal, then I have no factual basis, none really good anyways, that it "should" be removed.
ALso, I assert the claim (which is actually a premise for a much greater claim) that religion is anti-humanitarian, and thus spreading it is anti-humanitarian, thus making the spreader anti-humanitarian.
But I recognize the power of, power. And I understand that I'm not going to use emotions to fight claims.
I FEEL it's wrong, and hate people who do it, but I choose not to use those because they're not objective.
I asked earlier, does anyone know the supreme court status on this? they ruled to remove under god after the case, but then I heard some BS about all senators saying it was insane etc...
I say as an atheist "god bless supreme court judges"!
they rock our world!
- #108
damgo
Like, maybe, when it really, yknow, matters?
- #109
damgo
The Supreme Court has not yet heard the case.
The 9th Circuit threw out the words; the Supreme Court has not yet decided whether to grant cert -- to hear the case. They should do that within the next couple weeks.
The 9th Circuit threw out the words; the Supreme Court has not yet decided whether to grant cert -- to hear the case. They should do that within the next couple weeks.
- #110
LogicalAtheist
Let us hope for humanity, being an influencial country, that they are thrown out.
Damgo - when does "it" matter?
While a teacher molesting a child disrupts a few lives, the imposition of religion onto an entire nations generation damages humanity (so says I) in an unfixable manner!
Damgo - when does "it" matter?
While a teacher molesting a child disrupts a few lives, the imposition of religion onto an entire nations generation damages humanity (so says I) in an unfixable manner!
- #111
Mattius_
- 8
- 0
i don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet, nor do i care to scroll through each and every post to see, but the 'under god' part was added during the cold war because communists by creed do not believe in a higher being... and if I am correct, that is the reason why its being banned in the first place... so we can now conclude that communists are taking over the united states...
- #112
BoulderHead
Those "Godless Communists"
I think many people were actually only fighting Atheism all those years...
I think many people were actually only fighting Atheism all those years...
- #113
Zero
That's a novel interpretation, if nothing else.
- #114
Zero
This could be a good separate thread: Is the general hatred of communism based mainly on a hatred of atheism?
- #115
Mattius_
- 8
- 0
sarcasm zero
- #116
Zero
Originally posted by Mattius_
sarcasm zero
Well, it isn't like I can hear your tone of voice, now can I? Plus, I've read stranger posts than that my two years here.
- #117
LogicalAtheist
Since you use "general" I'll comment.
I would say today the general hatred of communism in America is because of one thing; conditioning.
I would bet that in a random poll representing american citizens of the newer generations, age 30 and below, you'd find that barely any could define communism.
Thus since they wouldn't know what it was, if you asked them if it was "bad" they'd probably say yes, and you could conclude it's because conditioning.
In fact I would further bet if you polled people on "what was the religions of communist leaders" or "what was the religion of ___" filled in with the name of a communist leader, nearly none would guess correctly.
- #118
Zero
Sure..and it would be cool to discuss this in a separate thread.
- #119
LogicalAtheist
Well it's what the thread is about. I merely looked at what's been said since I posted. I don't read the whole thing over agian, just the new stuff.
So move it! Or start a new one and pop a link here for us to follow.
So move it! Or start a new one and pop a link here for us to follow.
- #120
Zero
Getting back on topic...